Don't put Parcells in the Patriots Hall of Fame.

patfanken said:

In another its Martin.

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Redskins stuck with Riggins, wore out the Fins D and won it all.

Pats did not stick with Martin, badly exposing the not-that-good Bledsoe who got eaten alive (much like his #11 predecessor at the same venue 11 years earlier) and lost.

patfanken said:

I'm not sure it will survive the admittance to Bill Parcells to the Pats HOF.

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Particularly amid endlessly continuing to give Julius Adams the Houston Antwine treatment.

p8ryts said:

I didn't know that. Do we know that Holovak was the one to make the decision?

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Indeed, it is entirely plausible that he was under pressure from ownership. See Fairbanks, Chuck.

I don't think we'll ever know. I was lucky enough to have a nice phone conversation with his wife from Florida before he passed; if I'd known then I would have asked her about it.

patfanken said:

Actually Eason was a good QB who lacked a key ingredient of a GREAT one. He wasn't physically tough.

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Interestingly, I thought Tony was indeed pretty tough. He did get up after most of those sacks to take the next snap. When he came off the bench after Grogan got knocked out at the Jets in '85, he got a nasty cut on his face but still kept the Pats in the game with clutch throws. A year later he basically willed the team past the Rams in Anaheim, pulling a daring maneuver to gain some extra yards in the game's penultimate play, before screaming at Morgan and Fryar in the huddle, "I'm throwing that ball up there, and YOU'RE going to catch it!!!" while pointing directly at them. Irving made the walk off TD catch after Stanley tipped it.

Ron Meyer was not in favor of drafting Eason, for the very reason of a lack of toughness. In Hog's defense, NOBODY was ever as tough as Grogan. The problem with Eason is exactly the same as with Bledsoe: managing a football game, reacting effectively to pressure, converting seemingly simple plays in the most critical situations, avoiding the fatal mistake and leading and inspiring the offense and by extension the entire team with poise, awareness, calm and determination separate the great quarterbacks from the ones who throw for a lot of yards but don't win the game. Flutie, Plunkett, and Grogan were loaded with that ability.

Tony was okay. Not nearly in the class of Earl Morrall. Maybe Don Strock.

patfanken said:

the QB who led the team through 3 very tough games to get the team to NO.

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He didn't screw up. He was called upon to make very few throws, but he made them count. The running game, defense and special teams carried the team in those playoffs. Berry was fooling himself when he obviously thought that could continue versus the Bears. Starting the then healthy and vastly better and more experienced Grogan and having a methodical, ball control, slow the game down game plan, to go with an opportunistic defense that did not need the extra pressure of starting a Super Bowl with an inferior kid running for his life, were some of the needed and not implemented strategies for orchestrating the historic upset it would have been.

patfanken said:

I often wonder about how so called QB busts like David Carr would have faired if they hadn't been fed to the dogs their first few years

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Plunkett was so obviously the real deal. The wins he did lead us to were impressive. I was not surprised at all when he succeeded with the Raiders.

So Tony, what's up with the "Angry" rating?
Does that refer to Holovak? Or Parcells?
Just curious, bro.

jimnance said:

If that's true, then fook holovak.
But most definitely, fook parcells.
Ain't no way, shape or form that ******* gets the privilege of the Patriots Hall of Fame.
What he did was 10x worse than what Kraft did to Brady.

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Apples and oranges. Parcells was selfish. Kraft was a coward.

Not this again...

Triumph said:

Parcells did not throw the SB.

Anybody watching the game again will see that unless they are blind.

Parcells did not throw 4 INTs and get sacked 5 times holding the ball like a statue. Bledsoe was erratic and played like dog 5hit missing open WRs. Curtis Martin never showed up for a big game in his life 13 carries for 43 yards. Otis Smith got torched. Adam V kicked a line drive to Howard on his KO return. Who the hell told him to do that? Parcells? After NE just scored and was back in the game? Put the crack pipe away.

Bledsoe choked and thats why he never won 5hit.

Parcells belongs in the NEHOF. The 2001 NE SB Championship does not happen without him.

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nope.....

Either way, it's still rotten fruit.

I don’t think Parcells threw the SB deliberately but he coached like he didn’t give a crap. Probably because he was another team’s employee already.

sb1 said:

I don’t think Parcells threw the SB deliberately but he coached like he didn’t give a crap. Probably because he was another team’s employee already.

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No it's ridiculous to think he threw the game. That's just whack.
But you're about to lead your troops into battle vs. a superior opponent, who has more and better weapons than you.
They've given their blood,sweat and tears all year for you. ( I'm not just referring to players, but also coaching staff and fans).
They also PUT you in position for what you saw as a better career opportunity, by playing their hearts out all year and performing big-time.
Now, when they need your leadership the most, when they need every ounce of physical and mental energy from everyone, to even have a tiny shot of winning, you fail as a leader.
Why? Lack of effort, the worst sin of all.
To me, it's just bad as if you deliberately
threw the game.
You couldn't do, when it truly mattered, what you asked your troops to do,which they did.
You couldn't put your own selfish issues with the owner aside for 60 minutes.
Total lack of leadership.
Parcells true colors showed up in the biggest moment.
He absolutely sucks as a leader,especially in comparison to BB and TB, who both gave their best when it mattered most.
Fook parcells.

In the run up to the Super Bowl, Parcells was exactly the kind of distraction he always preached against.

He was a fantastic hypocrite.

More broadly, it was just pointless. There's no reason he couldn't just put off his conniving for a week and actually focus on the Super Bowl, except out of sheer spite. It was an act of contempt against Kraft, which is one thing, but also against his own team and the fans, and it's not like the Jets wouldn't want to hire him if he put the scheming to bail on the team until the off-season.

I mean, what's the best interpretation here, that he didn't think Holmgren was worth the full effort of game-planning against? Anybody looking at that 1996 Packers team would have to be be terminally psychotic to see him as a pushover. But the alternative is that Parcells respected Holmgren but simply didn't care about doing the work when he could just pout in public and backstab in private.

And already being in the pro football HOF is irrelevant to this discussion, because his HOF resume is almost entirely based on his time with the Giants. After that it was all diminishing returns at each successive stop. You might as well say he needs to be in the Cowboys ring of honor while you're at it.

You don't get into the HOF for a muddled legacy of highs (rebuilding the roster, giving the press nice sound bites) and lows (betraying everybody.)

XLIX said:

I am no big fan of Parcells but suggesting he "threw the game" is absurd. I don't think some in here understand the weight of that statement.

Was he distracted prior to the game, negotiating with the Jets and already had one foot out the door? Yes. Absolutely. But let's be real: The Packers were far and away the best team in the NFL that year. The Patriots weren't even the best team in the AFC. GB was favored by 14 and they won by 14.

The better team won and it was no one’s fault.

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I think Parcells doesn't get much credit for the Superbowl season because he was on the phone with the Jets - but he / the NEP were pretty lucky to be there in the first place. DEN inexplicably lost to JAX at home so the Patriots didn't have to go to Denver. Don't get me wrong, I was pleased as punch that the Patriots smoked the Steelers in the divisional game - just feel like the chances of the Patriots winning in Mile High to advance to the Superbowl were very small.

jimnance said:

So Tony, what's up with the "Angry" rating?
Does that refer to Holovak? Or Parcells?
Just curious, bro.

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That was accidental. Thanks for the heads up.

"Parcells did not throw 4 INTs and get sacked 5 times holding the ball like a statue. Bledsoe was erratic and played like dog 5hit missing open WRs."

Defensive game plan allowed a 52 yd TD pass, 81 yd TD Pass, a grinding 74 yard drive while the Special Teams plan allowed 244 yds and a TD. None of that has anything to do with 4 Ints and 5 sacks, but vice versa has a lot to do with pressure on the QB. Spot the other team 4 TDs and ask your QB to win the game against HoF pass rush and no run game to help. I'd have to look at the Ints, but I recall #2 was on a third and long where the playwas a low percentage shot down the field and it basically ended up serving as a punt. Favre followed that with the 81 yd TD pass.

stephens44 said:

"Parcells did not throw 4 INTs and get sacked 5 times holding the ball like a statue. Bledsoe was erratic and played like dog 5hit missing open WRs."

Defensive game plan allowed a 52 yd TD pass, 81 yd TD Pass, a grinding 74 yard drive while the Special Teams plan allowed 244 yds and a TD. None of that has anything to do with 4 Ints and 5 sacks, but vice versa has a lot to do with pressure on the QB. Spot the other team 4 TDs and ask your QB to win the game against HoF pass rush and no run game to help. I'd have to look at the Ints, but I recall #2 was on a third and long where the playwas a low percentage shot down the field and it basically ended up serving as a punt. Favre followed that with the 81 yd TD pass.

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A measly 11 carries from their best (or second best depending on your view of Bledsoe) player. 1 carry from him in the 4th quarter with your overmatched LT giving up rush after rush.

All on Parcells imo.

Actual Pats Fan said:

Yes

No.

They were very good. Smart. Opportunistic. Better than the Patriots.

But not far and away. Hand the ball to Martin, as the 'Skins did with Riggins vs. the Dolphins, and the result could very well have been different.

And Mike Holovak.

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Agreed. That was a very talented Patriots team with young guys like Bledsoe, Bruschi, Vinatieri and Curtis Martin playing important roles. Ben Coates was at the top of his game, and old war horses like Dave Meggett brought experience.

If the Patriots had played better special teams and the defense had kept the Green Bay receivers in front of them, they could very well have won that football game. Many people around here have said it was poor coaching that cost them that Super Bowl. Parcells was halfway out the door.

The Patriots led at the half 14-10. The only TD they gave up was a 54-yard pass play from Favre to Andre Rison.

The second half got out of control after an early 81-yard TD on blown coverage and it was over on Desmond Howard's 99-yard TD return. Green Bay only mounted one decent scoring drive all game.

Those big plays allowed Reggie White and the GB secondary to tee off on Max Lane and the Patriots pass blocking scheme. Curtis Martin ran the ball only 10 or 11 times. He had to stay in to block. It was a huge missed opportunity.

Super Bowl XXXI - New England Patriots vs. Green Bay Packers - January 26th, 1997 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Parcells at least regrets how he left.

I'm sure it's because of what happened since. Can't see him and Brady gelling like Bill did though.

Had Parcells not been involved in the Super Bowl/Jets crap, I don’t see how he’s a Patriots HOF anyway. He built a good team in four years, they didn’t win a SB, then he left. All of this garbage about him building a foundation for a dynasty is such revisionist history. Pete Carroll didn’t do much with this “dynasty team” he left behind, and they were 5-11 in 2000. Every team in the NFL has some really good players. Four years after Parcells left there was Bruschi, Brown, Vinatieri, McGinest, Law, and Milloy. That isn’t exactly the 70s Steelers as a foundation...these are good/great players who are now glorified in gold because of the contributions from Brady/Belichick.

He also left the team with one crappy evaluation of Bledsoe, believing he was so great that paying him through the nose was worth it. The team had to win despite the massive cap hit that Parcells golden boy ate up.

I’d say between the Bledsoe contract and the foundational players, it’s maybe a net zero.

Does the NY Giants coach/GM that came before Parcells in the 1980s also get accolades because some good players were left over?

Tony2046 said:

That was accidental. Thanks for the heads up.

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Thanks,Tony.
I've never gotten an "angry" rating before.
Now watch, I'll get a ton.

Voted Seymour

BUSTAMOVE said:

Voted Seymour

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I didn't now, and won't in the future either...same goes for Mankin$...

Big Parcells fan. Great coach and evaluator of talent. Deserves some credit for the players brought in here that were key parts of championships.

doesn’t belong in the patriot hall of fame though.