DRAFT Dalton Keene

Ochmed Jones · May 3, 2020

After the giants stole McKinney out from under bb’s nose, bb essentially became paranoid and over drafted all his remaining picks.

And for some unknown reason he nutted up super early on the kicker. Maybe he thoughts someone else had this kid on there draft board.

Uptown · May 3, 2020

Ochmed Jones said:
After the giants stole McKinney out from under bb’s nose, bb essentially became paranoid and over drafted all his remaining picks.

And for some unknown reason he nutted up super early on the kicker. Maybe he thoughts someone else had this kid on there draft board.

BB didn’t want McKinney..He drafted exactly who he wanted..It was Kyle that BB Dug.

Kasmir · May 4, 2020

KontradictioN said:
Massachusetts with two players drafted.

But we produce so many great football minds instead...

Kasmir · May 4, 2020

40yrpatsfan said:
The market is what 32 GM's determine, not what Kiper or Draft Central say. How do you know one of those GM's wouldn't have picked this guy at #100 or 110?

Why Belichick would overpay? What would be the purpose in overpaying? If he could have sat tight with confidence at #125 and picked him because the market said he'd still be there, then he probably woulda done that I would say. They made the move cause something told them this guy was going to go between the late 3rd and late 4th round.

Agreed. Much of what fans think of as "reaches" or "steals" are caused by late adjustments in the NFL draft grades being updated constantly by teams. The Kiper's et al are generally not privy to that info so their grades are just stale. Usually, a "reach" means a player made a late move up teams draft boards. And a "steal" usually means that a player is falling on teams draft boards. NFL teams subscribe to scouting services so such late moves are quickly widely known -- but not to the Kipers or to fans.

Kasmir · May 4, 2020

Ring 6 said:
Not true. “Market” dictating value is process of price being set by supply and demand. Player trades are market driven.
Draft slotting is totally different. All 32 teams have their own values on each player and their own needs. If 30 teams had Keene rated in the 600s but one had him at 90 and were ready to trade up to get him his “value” and “market price” to the Patriots is take him now or lose him.
Same with the K. He is the one they wanted, the had their choice of every kicker. No information is available to the patriots how the other 31 teams rate him and whether he would be the later.

I understand your point about teams having to have their own specific value but team also need to be aware of market value so they can know when to trade up, pick, or trade down. Also keep in mind many teams share info through the national scouting services, so news about players rising or falling will quickly become widely known. I believe the Pats don't participate in those scouting services, but I'd be surprised if they didn't trade their info with teams that do participate in order to maintain an up to date consensus board.

Kasmir · May 4, 2020

Ochmed Jones said:
After the giants stole McKinney out from under bb’s nose, bb essentially became paranoid and over drafted all his remaining picks.

And for some unknown reason he nutted up super early on the kicker. Maybe he thoughts someone else had this kid on there draft board.

None of us are mind readers; you have no idea what Belichick was thinking.

PittPatriot · May 4, 2020

Ring 6 said:
He has no information about where other teams rank players. Guessing is not information.
If he evaluates a player as the best kicker in the draft, he has absolutely no idea who the other 31 players have evaluated as the best kicker.
Relying on a media list is a horrific way of making decisions. First as you reach round 3 and later they vary widely, secondly every team had their own list so a guess by a non-team is useless and third, it takes one team to draft a player.
Every draft professional will say you stay true to your board and don’t get cute and not take the guy you want when he is value at the slot because you think you are smart enough to guess when he will be drafted.

He has “no idea”?
I disagree.
I don’t know “every draft professional“...You may know people in higher places than I do. Many teams TRADE DOWN because they don’t like the spot they are in for the player they want and they accumulate future draft capital and still get the guy they want at a lower spot. That is the exact opposite of what you wrote in the last paragraph.

Kontradiction · May 4, 2020

Kasmir said:
But we produce so many great football minds instead...

Literally every state in the union produces great football minds.

PP2 · May 4, 2020

Zuma said:
That's the definition of "Throwing him out of the club."

FIFY

BTTA · May 4, 2020

KontradictioN said:
Literally every state in the union produces great football minds.

I need to see the evidence before acknowledging that's true about Florida.

Kontradiction · May 4, 2020

betterthanthealternative said:
I need to see the evidence before acknowledging that's true about Florida.

That’s either extreme sarcasm or a really dumbassed statement. I’m not sure which. I’m hoping for the former. Without going into coaching records by coaches who emerge out of different states (hint: Massachusetts is nowhere to be found there either), I’ll just simply say - who do you think coaches all of that elite talent to come out of the state?

scott99 · May 4, 2020

Wozzy said:
Keene was my favorite TE in the draft, he reminded me of Foster Moreau who came out last year and who the Patriots should have grabbed in the 4th.

They traded back and picked Cowart later because Oakland jumped ahead of them and grabbed Moreau. They shouldn't have gotten cute and taken the player at a spot of good value instead. Suggesting they paid too much is nitpicking if the player is highly rated on their board.

The Patriots wasted a late pick last year trading for Eric Saubert who was cut out of camp, they traded for Michael Roberts who failed his physical. A bird in hand is better than another 6th round draft pick, draft picks are meant to be used.

I loved the double dip at TE in this draft and the signing of Vitale. The run game instantly improves.

I think they took Keene instead of Trautman, who is a more traditional TE, because Keene is more versatile. Only time will tell if it was a good move or a mistake to take him over Trautman. Keene is the Swiss Army knife of TEs from the 2020 draft. I'm hoping Keene is used correctly, and a lot. We certainly need him and Asiasi to be good pass catching TEs. Don't need them to be great, just need them to be good. If they wind up great, that would be a bonus.

I'm also hoping Danny Vitale is used like he was in college. He was a special type of weapon, a mini TE, 6'1" 245, and ran a 4.6 at the combine. Caught everything.

BTTA · May 4, 2020

KontradictioN said:
That’s either extreme sarcasm or a really dumbassed statement. I’m not sure which. I’m hoping for the former. Without going into coaching records by coaches who emerge out of different states (hint: Massachusetts is nowhere to be found there either), I’ll just simply say - who do you think coaches all of that elite talent to come out of the state?

I'm just having some morning fun with you...seeing if your trigger finger is ready...and it is!

Kontradiction · May 4, 2020

betterthanthealternative said:
I'm just having some morning fun with you...seeing if your trigger finger is ready...and it is!

I figured it was sarcasm. You’re usually on par. I’m sure someone else will seriously take up your cause here, though.

BTTA · May 4, 2020

scott99 said:
I think they took Keene instead of Trautman, who is a more traditional TE, because Keene is more versatile. Only time will tell if it was a good move or a mistake to take him over Trautman. Keene is the Swiss Army knife of TEs from the 2020 draft. I'm hoping Keene is used correctly, and a lot. We certainly need him and Asiasi to be good pass catching TEs. Don't need them to be great, just need them to be good. If they wind up great, that would be a bonus.

I'm also hoping Danny Vitale is used like he was in college. He was a special type of weapon, a mini TE, 6'1" 245, and ran a 4.6 at the combine. Caught everything.

I'm sure the Pats look for underutilized players, as a way of identifying hidden value. The Virginia Tech coaching quality has taken quite a dive in the past few years, and their offensive scheme simplified due to QB turnover. In this case, that may play to Keene's value.

BTTA · May 4, 2020

KontradictioN said:
I figured it was sarcasm. You’re usually on par. I’m sure someone else will seriously take up your cause here, though.

Trashing Florida for something as obscure as homegrown coaching talent?!
Man, we need sports to get started, and for some luck with this virus.

Kasmir · May 4, 2020

KontradictioN said:
Literally every state in the union produces great football minds.

It was sarcasm, and I was referring indirectly to this board. Not to you of course (no sarcasm, you know a ton).

Prior to the dynasty -- or maybe prior to Parcells -- Boston was one of the worst football fan bases in the country. Now everyone is an expert.

Kontradiction · May 4, 2020

betterthanthealternative said:
Trashing Florida for something as obscure as homegrown coaching talent?!
Man, we need sports to get started, and for some luck with this virus.

There are plenty of reasons to trash Florida. That isn’t one of them. I will be ready.

Ring 6 · May 4, 2020

Kasmir said:
I understand your point about teams having to have their own specific value but team also need to be aware of market value so they can know when to trade up, pick, or trade down. Also keep in mind many teams share info through the national scouting services, so news about players rising or falling will quickly become widely known. I believe the Pats don't participate in those scouting services, but I'd be surprised if they didn't trade their info with teams that do participate in order to maintain an up to date consensus board.

That’s a totally different concept than market value and someone’s opinion or even a consensus isn’t very valuable when it takes one team to pick and the draft never follows that consensus very closely.
Remember we are talking about not choosing the guy you want because you know he won’t be taken before your next pick.

Kasmir · May 4, 2020

Ring 6 said:
That’s a totally different concept than market value and someone’s opinion or even a consensus isn’t very valuable when it takes one team to pick and the draft never follows that consensus very closely.
Remember we are talking about not choosing the guy you want because you know he won’t be taken before your next pick.

The NFL draft is a very thinly traded market, so it's not surprising that the "market value" of a prospect should be volatile. The Pats are one of only 6 teams that don't belong to a scouting organization, so of course their picks often look like reaches: with the number of subscribers to BLESTO et al, there's no real secrecy of scouting opinions amongst subscribers, that really does create more of a draft market value consensus for 26 teams...

DRAFT Dalton Keene

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