Bengals release QB Andy Dalton

ChrisR2223 said:

When Brady took over he was a wholly unproven 6th rounder. I don't think this board existed in 2001, but can you imagine what the posts would have looked like when Bledsoe went down and the team was turned over to Brady. I'm guessing the armchair quarterbacks were predicting doom and gloom and instead they got a Lombardi. In Bill I trust.

Click to expand...

Back then I was on Patriots.com and reading my Patriots football weekly religiously.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm. I seem to remember a lot of folks who thought BB was doing the right thing by sticking with the hot hand. And while none of us probably dreamed of the eventual Lombardi it was hardly all doom and gloom. I think a lot of us realized by then that Bledsoe, while a good QB, was never going to get us to the promiseland.

Ring 6 said:

I think this post is 5 years old. Newton is a shell of his former self. He doesn’t want to run, can’t take the beating if running anymore and as a pocket passer he makes a good runner.

Click to expand...

mid still take Newton over Dalton, but I don’t really want either, and I premised it by saying if that were the choice. I want Stidham to start and to go through the growing pains necessary to develop, then review QB after the season. If they make the playoffs I’ll be thrilled with their season, if not I’ll look at the good and bad and take stock then. I see this as a 3-4 year process to build them back to perennial contenders.

lancerman said:

He had surgery and was recovering to the point where the team IR’d him.

Cam right before the surgery had his 2nd best year. Dalton has 3 mediocre years. The last time Dalton was good his best receiver was Green. Dalton has never won a playoff game. Cam has. Dalton has played awful in the playoffs. Cam has some dominant playoff games under his belt. Dalton can’t extend plays. Cam can. Dalton only has played well with strong offensive talent. Cam has played well with mediocre offensive talent. Cam has hit elite levels multiple times in his career. Dalton is habitually average, his best was a bit above average and he’s been below average to poor the last 3 years.

Dalton vs Cam is a no brainer. The only question is if you want to role the dice on Stidham who is an unknown

Click to expand...

I'm not in the Cam-Dolton debate. All I know is Cam has shoulder issues. Doctors nor Cam knew what was wrong. Know one knows (except you )how Cam will perform after the surgery.

Ivan said:

mid still take Newton over Dalton, but I don’t really want either, and I premised it by saying if that were the choice. I want Stidham to start and to go through the growing pains necessary to develop, then review QB after the season. If they make the playoffs I’ll be thrilled with their season, if not I’ll look at the good and bad and take stock then. I see this as a 3-4 year process to build them back to perennial contenders.

Click to expand...

They were 12-4 last year. Name the wins that would have been losses with an average QB.
Few if any.
This wasn’t a bad team carried by a QB. They are a good team and are good unless the QB hands games away. Give them an average QB (say 12th to 20th best) and they are a contender.

lancerman said:

1. Look at our options Dalton hasn’t been good for 3 years either and Stidham is unproven

2. Cam objectively has the highest confirmed ceiling of our options

3. For an offense that has serious issues, Cam himself is a weapon that defenses have to gameplan around and respect. He can extend plays and create opportunities. Dalton can’t and Stidham is an unknown

4. Dalton is objectively trash in the post season, Cam has played at a very high level in the post season

The ideal option is in Tampa Bay. But with what we actually have to choose from, Cam is the safer bet, with the better track record, who can add more, and has the highest ceiling

Click to expand...

You seem to miss the fact that newton is a running QB who doesn’t want to run any more and would have zero chance of last 6 games playing like he did at that ceiling you think he still has because of the beating and wear and tear he has taken.
Newton is a running QB who struggled mightily in the pocket trying to become a pocket QB who won’t run.

Ring 6 said:

You seem to miss the fact that newton is a running QB who doesn’t want to run any more and would have zero chance of last 6 games playing like he did at that ceiling you think he still has because of the beating and wear and tear he has taken.
Newton is a running QB who struggled mightily in the pocket trying to become a pocket QB who won’t run.

Click to expand...

The last year Cam Newton played a full season (2018):....

-he completed more passes than Dalton did in any of the last three seasons

-he has a higher completion percentage than Dalton in his last 3 seasons

-he threw for more yards than Dalton in 2 of his last 3 seasons

-he threw for more TD’s than Dalton in 3 of his last 4 seasons (and the one he didn’t, Dalton beat him by a single TD)

-he had a higher passer rating than Dalton in his last 4 seasons.

-he had a higher yards per pass than Dalton in his last 3 seasons.

-he rushed for 488 yards which was 4th highest in the NFL (for someone you claim doesn’t want to run) which is more than Dalton ever has

-he was top 5 in rushing TD’s with 4. That’s low for Can and equal to Dalton’s best

You keeping talking about facts, but when I look up actual data they don’t support your opinion that you claim as facts. Numbers are pesky things

lancerman said:

The last year Cam Newton played a full season (2018):....

-he completed more passes than Dalton did in any of the last three seasons

-he has a higher completion percentage than Dalton in his last 3 seasons

-he threw for more yards than Dalton in 2 of his last 3 seasons

-he threw for more TD’s than Dalton in 3 of his last 4 seasons (and the one he didn’t, Dalton beat him by a single TD)

-he had a higher passer rating than Dalton in his last 4 seasons.

-he had a higher yards per pass than Dalton in his last 3 seasons.

-he rushed for 488 yards which was 4th highest in the NFL (for someone you claim doesn’t want to run) which is more than Dalton ever has

-he was top 5 in rushing TD’s with 4. That’s low for Can and equal to Dalton’s best

You keeping talking about facts, but when I look up actual data they don’t support your opinion that you claim as facts. Numbers are pesky things

Click to expand...

I said nothing about dalton, comparing him to dalton is pointless because dalton sucks, and you are using numbers of a running QB who doesn’t want to run any more.

lancerman said:

I disagree that Cam’s done. The last time he played a full season (a year ago) he had arguably his best year as a passer (certainly 2nd best) and was still a proficient runner.

However I’m fine with wanting to stick with the unknown. But it’s more likely than not he’s a lesser option than Cam.

The benefit to Stidham is that if he’s good you hit the jackpot and have him on a rookie contact and he’ll be here for years and if he sucks you get to tank.

If it’s about trying to win. Cam’s easily the preferred option

Click to expand...

Cam Newton sucks. He had one great year... and he blew the important game.

He is a diva and even when healthy... he was never that good. Now, he is done.

I'd rather go with Stidham. If he fails... draft a QB with a high pick.

Everyone is comparing Dalton and Newton without any context. To me it all depends on what kind of deal any of them would agree on.

Is Dalton at lets say 3-4m more value than Newton at 10m ? Is Newton at 10m about 15x the value of Stidham ?

Any of the two would be a no brainer to bring into camp if he'd take the same deal as Winston with the Saints.

Le Numéro Douze said:

Cam Newton sucks. He had one great year... and he blew the important game.

He is a diva and even when healthy... he was never that good. Now, he is done.

I'd rather go with Stidham. If he fails... draft a QB with a high pick.

Click to expand...

Two years ago he had arguably his 2nd best year ever. He didn’t play this year. You have no basis to say he was done. And he played about as well as Brady did against the same team in “the important game”.

Sorry you are letting emotions cloud the facts

lancerman said:

Two years ago he had arguably his 2nd best year ever. He didn’t play this year. You have no basis to say he was done. And he played about as well as Brady did against the same team in “the important game”.

Sorry you are letting emotions cloud the facts

Click to expand...

Literally nothing in this post is correct.

Ring 6 said:

Literally nothing in this post is correct.

Click to expand...

I have data to back me up. You just keep saying “Cam isn’t good”

lancerman said:

I have data to back me up. You just keep saying “Cam isn’t good”

Click to expand...

No you don’t. Because Cam isn’t good any more. Your “data” is bogus.
I’ve explained this in detail.
You just seem to want to pretend.

As far as your comments there is no way in holy hell that anyone watching football games would call 2018 Newton’s second best year. It’s a joke that you would say so.
He didn’t come close to “playing as well as brady” when he got destroyed by a team brady lost by 2 points to.

Ring 6 said:

No you don’t. Because Cam isn’t good any more. Your “data” is bogus.
I’ve explained this in detail.
You just seem to want to pretend.

As far as your comments there is no way in holy hell that anyone watching football games would call 2018 Newton’s second best year. It’s a joke that you would say so.
He didn’t come close to “playing as well as brady” when he got destroyed by a team brady lost by 2 points to.

Click to expand...

Then you clearly didn’t watch the games. Cam has a SLIGHTLY worse stat line than Brady and Brady got the ever loving **** kicked out of him all game until the Broncos defense started gassing and he starting spamming the ball the Gronk. Both guys faces a locamotive.

I can’t discuss something with somebody who doesn’t use data and treats their opinion as a fact and just keeps repeating it over and over like a child until people agree with them. You are factually wrong. Almost everyone who watched the Panthers in 2018 viewed it as a strong year for Cam. And no Dalton is not in his tier and until proven otherwise Stidham is a 4th round nobody who needed to get pulled from relieving Brady in his only meaningful game experience.

Nobody on Earth would say between Cam, Dalton, and Stidham that the safest bet isn’t Cam except for a complete homer for Stidham who is going off blind faith or just someone who is irrationally disliking Cam.

Numbers don’t lie, I doubt you watched the Panthers in 2018. Most people don’t agree with your narrative

lancerman said:

Then you clearly didn’t watch the games. Cam has a SLIGHTLY worse stat line than Brady and Brady got the ever loving **** kicked out of him all game until the Broncos defense started gassing and he starting spamming the ball the Gronk. Both guys faces a locamotive.

Click to expand...

So gutting it out carrying a team with no rob and half an ol and coming within a 2 point conversion is the same to you as 18/41 putting up 10 points and turning it over 3 times?
Even you know that’s a load of crap.

I can’t discuss something with somebody who doesn’t use data and treats their opinion as a fact and just keeps repeating it over and over like a child until people agree with them. You are factually wrong. Almost everyone who watched the Panthers in 2018 viewed it as a strong year for Cam. And no Dalton is not in his tier and until proven otherwise Stidham is a 4th round nobody who needed to get pulled from relieving Brady in his only meaningful game experience.

Click to expand...

Subverting an intelligent opinion to a view of cumulative stats is ignorant.
Newton was far better in 2013 for example. You are looking at stats and think he played better because he dumped off 120 passes to mccaffrey. With mccaffery they were a mediocre offense and a losing team.

Nobody on Earth would say between Cam, Dalton, and Stidham that the safest bet isn’t Cam except for a complete homer for Stidham who is going off blind faith or just someone who is irrationally disliking Cam.

Numbers don’t lie, I doubt you watched the Panthers in 2018. Most people don’t agree with your narrative

Click to expand...

Many, many people including bill Belichick would disagree with you. You are looking at numbers from a QB who is a shadow of himself.
His success was primarily influenced by his running ability and he has ALWAYS struggled in the pocket. Now he won’t run and is relegated to being a bad pocket QB.
Nobody wants him. Carolina dumped him for Teddy freaking Bridgewater. Lol.
Those are facts. Stats accumulated when he was a different player and which are deceptive as hell because 1/3 of his passes were glorified handoffs are not “data and trends” there are if ignorance personified.

but hey no reason to debate. Proof will come. If Belichick signs newton you are right, if he doesnt you are wrong. Simple as that.

I’d rather have him stay in ohio

Ring 6 said:

You seem to miss the fact that newton is a running QB who doesn’t want to run any more and would have zero chance of last 6 games playing like he did at that ceiling you think he still has because of the beating and wear and tear he has taken.
Newton is a running QB who struggled mightily in the pocket trying to become a pocket QB who won’t run.

Click to expand...

Then choose Andy Dalton, I don’t care. I would take Newton over Dalton but don’t want either, I want Stidham to start this season.

Ivan said:

Then choose Andy Dalton, I don’t care. I would take Newton over Dalton but don’t want either, I want Stidham to start this season.

Click to expand...

I see little value in Dalton either.

Move along. Nothing to see here.

Gator Mike said:

Move along. Nothing to see here.

Click to expand...

Seriously, at that price and for a backup role. We clearly had no interest.