Gronk trade completed

Teej said:

The Pats had Gronk and Brady and lost a SB to the Eagles

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No defense!

sb1 said:

Brady was 10-6 the year after that.

Still shows that with Belichick this team isn’t falling off a cliff even without Brady. Same thing when people were predicting 0-4 when Brady was suspended.

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Did you fail to forget that a huge portion of that team and most of the defense from the 18-1 team was still there at both Belichick's and Cassel's disposal? - its not like Cassel started on a team that was 2-14 the year before - come on man - that team was still stacked,even without Brady and actually that 11-5 record would have been 15-1 and a AFCCG with Tom at the helm

sb1 said:

I think the logic that a 43 year old Brady is the one and only difference between a Super Bowl contending team and a team picking high in the draft next year like some are implying is really bizarre and kind of sucks in its own way. But we’re all entitled to our opinion.

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You pointed to 2007/2008, not just last year. That was a moment that should have embarrassed the hell out of you. The greatest team of all time became a non-playoff team without its QB.

PATRIOTSFANINPA said:

Did you fail to forget that a huge portion of that team and most of the defense from the 18-1 team was still there at both Belichick's and Cassel's disposal? - its not like Cassel started on a team that was 2-14 the year before - come on man

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Like I said before I look at the Patriots going 11-5 with Cassel and compare to the Colts without Manning. The difference between us and them is the coach. We have Bill they had Caldwell, a career .300 college coach.

All I’m saying is we still have Bill. I give him the benefit of the doubt that his team will get by without Brady until he proves otherwise.

Deus Irae said:

You pointed to 2007/2008, not just last year. That was a moment that should have embarrassed the hell out of you. The greatest team of all time became a non-playoff team without its QB.

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see my response right above.

Who?

sb1 said:

Like I said before I look at the Patriots going 11-5 with Cassel and compare to the Colts without Manning. The difference between us and them is the coach. We have Bill they had Caldwell, a career .300 college coach.

All I’m saying is we still have Bill. I give him the benefit of the doubt that this team will get by without Brady until he proves otherwise.

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The Vegas line is 8.5 wins for the Patriots this season....we can hope for the best but I would not bet my house on the over on that number - If Brady and Gronk returned that number would be 12.5

Teej said:

The Pats had Gronk and Brady and lost a SB to the Eagles

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Yep.

PATRIOTSFANINPA said:

The Vegas line is 8.5 wins for the Patriots this season....we can hope for the best but I would not bet my house on the over on that number - If Brady and Gronk returned that number would be 12.5

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Maybe it would but this is not the Manning Colts. We’re built differently than they were.

Brady (in his prime not so much now) was the key difference between a good team that could win a title and a great team that is a SB favorite. He was never the difference between a decent team and a team picking near the top of the draft like some think will be the case for some reason. Manning made that difference with the Colts.

sb1 said:

Like I said before I look at the Patriots going 11-5 with Cassel and compare to the Colts without Manning. The difference between us and them is the coach. We have Bill they had Caldwell, a career .300 college coach.

All I’m saying is we still have Bill. I give him the benefit of the doubt that his team will get by without Brady until he proves otherwise.

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I will say there was a big difference in those teams mindsets minus the QBs. Without Manning the colts knew they were in full suck for luck mode. BB teams would never have that mindset.

Now comparing both teams talent wise there is no comparison. The 2008 pats > 2011 colts. Our backup Cassel > Curtis Painter.

My 2 cents:

My initial reaction when I heard the news about this trade was "a 4th rounder for the GOAT TE?" I was hoping for Howard in return, or at least a 2nd. But I understand why it had to happen like it did. The Pats had no leverage, given our current cap situation. When you have no leverage, you don't get value with your assets.

Looks like the Bucs will have more fire power at the skill positions than the Pats had in 2007. If games were won on paper or fantasy football stats, you can pencil the Bucs into the superbowl right now. But this is football which is a game where the most talented teams don't always win. The the team that wins is the best team on THAT particular Sunday.

We have 12 draft picks this coming draft. I'm hoping they move down in the first round and up in the next 3 and come away with 7 or 8 solid players. We shall see.

I honestly don't really like Gronk.

Didn't really like him towards end of his run either (since his late hit episode). His personality gets more unbearable as he ages and I don't buy for a second he ever planned to fully retire.

Ras-IR Dowling said:

I will say there was a big difference in those teams mindsets minus the QBs. Without Manning the colts knew they were in full suck for luck mode. BB teams would never have that mindset.

Now comparing both teams talent wise there is no comparison. The 2008 pats > 2011 colts. Our backup Cassel > Curtis Painter.

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Cassel was horrendous in that preseason. I remember he was being talked about as a candidate to be cut. I don’t think many of us were thinking of him as a future pro bowler.

Then he became pretty good and the system was adjusted to fit him. That’s coaching imo.

Colts also didn’t tank imo. Teams don’t do that at least not on purpose.

sb1 said:

see my response right above.

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Yeah, that's a ridiculously stupid take.

Deus Irae said:

Yeah, that's a ridiculously stupid take.

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what’s stupid about it?

sb1 said:

I’m not cheering for any team but the Patriots. Doesn’t matter who isn’t here.

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Same.

Ive moved past Brady already.

sb1 said:

what’s stupid about it?

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Everything, with the possible exception of the punctuation.

with the weapons brady has, anything short of 18-0 would be a massive dissapointment.

Brady has a LOT to prove now

Deus Irae said:

Everything, with the possible exception of the punctuation.

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Not nearly as stupid as the talk of the departure of a 43 year old QB who was kinda terrible the second half of last year takes us from a SB contender in 2020 to a team that will pick high in the draft next year.

That, or they haven’t been paying attention much to their own team.

sb1 said:

Cassel was horrendous in that preseason. I remember he was being talked about as a candidate to be cut. I don’t think many of us were thinking of him as a future pro bowler.

Then he became pretty good and the system was adjusted to fit him. That’s coaching imo.

Colts also didn’t tank imo. Teams don’t do that at least not on purpose.

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Colts most certainly did tank. Had a nice 13 game losing streak that season.