bad news - is it just me (OT - virus)

betterthanthealternative said:

Yesterday's announcement that the banks can grab people's $1,200 deposits to make credit card payments to themselves is indicative. That money isn't meant to feed Bank of America and CITI. It is meant to feed grocery stores and tradespeople and similar.

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Banks are evil and greedy. I'm a Freedom CU member, and mine was not taken, and is sitting in my account as we speak. I'd encourage anyone to drop their greedy bank, and go with your local credit union.

My last Greedy Bank was Citizens. Years back when I was making way less and living paycheck to paycheck to credit card... I was convinced that they were purposely ordering my ledger in a way so I would be short 5-35 cents, in order to charge me an overdraft fee. My friends were calling me crazy, and a bank "would never do that". This happened about 7-8 times before I got fed up and closed my account, and went to Freedom.

A few months later I received a letter from a lawyer with a check for $20-30(don't remember the exact amount). I guess I wasn't crazy and someone filed a class-action lawsuit against Citizens for malicious overdraft practices and WON. I will never open an account to a greedy bank ever again.

Elijah said:

I'll defer to your economic analysis, but I was under the impression we just printed money close to the scale of the totality of USD in circulation. Maybe that's not "hyperinflation", but I worry prices will be close to double across the board in the near future.

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Hyperinflation isn't what you should be worried about. The Fed executed QE on such a large scale for so long after 2008, and yet inflation was fairly subdued. The monetary base increased, but M2 was stable. This is because the banks basically hoarded the money to shore up balance sheets as a result of all the toxic loans they had built up.

What you should be worried about is the effect QE has on risk premiums and how it artificially pushes investors into more risky assets, and thus, creating a bubble. This is what we saw after many years of QE, and indeed, there were signs of an asset bubble that was about to burst even before the coronavirus. The Fed engaging in similar policy now will lead to a similar situation down the road.

betterthanthealternative said:

Someone calculated how long the US deer population would remain viable if the food chains collapse, and it came out at 4-6 months. At that point, there are so few of them left that they are functionally extinct - there isn't enough genetic diversity left to restore the population.

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Hell i can head to the retirement community in Central Jersey where my parents live and bag 10 a day just driving around at dawn. ####ers are everywhere.

Suppose it depends on region, but if I walk in their backyard with a bag of carrots, 20 show up for free lunch.

Now I just need an AR15 so I can get em all at once.

Mrs.PatsFanInVa said:

What???? Is this true??? I have not heard this. If so - this is horrible. Does anyone have a link? I will look on my own, of course, but if someone already has it, please share it. Thanks.

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Sorry if I misled you with bad info. I got bad info.

From another post here:
"The bank can’t appropriate the checks for credit card charges, but it can for other consumer loans and fees."

So, car payments, for example?

JetFan79 said:

Hell i can head to the retirement community in Central Jersey where my parents live and bag 10 a day just driving around at dawn. ####ers are everywhere.

Suppose it depends on region, but if I walk in their backyard with a bag of carrots, 20 show up for free lunch.

Now I just need an AR15 so I can get em all at once.

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And that's exactly what people will be doing - killing as many as they can as fast as they can, filling their freezers, and selling the rest. That's why they disappear quickly.

Don't just count the deer. Count the people.

StairwayToSe7en said:

Hyperinflation isn't what you should be worried about. The Fed executed QE on such a large scale for so long after 2008, and yet inflation was fairly subdued. The monetary base increased, but M2 was stable. This is because the banks basically hoarded the money to shore up balance sheets as a result of all the toxic loans they had built up.

What you should be worried about is the effect QE has on risk premiums and how it artificially pushes investors into more risky assets, and thus, creating a bubble. This is what we saw after many years of QE, and indeed, there were signs of an asset bubble that was about to burst even before the coronavirus. The Fed engaging in similar policy now will lead to a similar situation down the road.

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I wonder about the countervailing effects on speculation from a near-global shutdown of economies, though. But yes, we're in unprecedented times, and the Fed is doing the right thing to deal with the immediate crisis. That this presages new and additional crises down the road is... well, capitalism in a nutshell.

primetime said:

I wonder about the countervailing effects on speculation from a near-global shutdown of economies, though. But yes, we're in unprecedented times, and the Fed is doing the right thing to deal with the immediate crisis. That this presages new and additional crises down the road is... well, capitalism in a nutshell.

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There's nothing wrong a business cycle that comes about naturally. It's easier to predict and to plan for. Even in a downturn, it gives the economy a chance to clear itself of poorly allocated investments. That's capitalism in a nutshell, and we're willing to live with whatever negatives may arise because it's still objectively the best system by a wide margin.

The issue with all of the intervention is that it adds waste along with many layers of uncertainty, be it through large scale regulation (the sheer size of compliance departments at many financial institutions is beyond anything you could imagine, which is a huge waste of resources), or through monetary policy that is constantly tinkering with the money supply or that artificially depresses returns on certain assets and pushes investors into higher risk assets.

Apologies if I missed the "usual" topic re the coronavirus

UK just announced "at least a 3 week lockdown extension".......then speculation that there will be a gradual release of conditions but government will not be drawn on any specific detail yet. I suspect depending on the scientific/health data that certain shops or workplaces will be allowed to re-open , however I think there will still be social distancing enforced.

Maybe one thing that could worry some is that the main release will be when a vaccine arrives or when a proven medicine works in preventing severe conditions

betterthanthealternative said:

Part of the problem is that those public figures who are most animated about getting the economy going couldn't care less about you and me, the small business owner. They represent an entirely different strata of the economy, the ownership class and oligarchs, and are only concerned with ensuring that those folks get their money machines rolling again. So when we talk about "getting the economy going again" we all aren't talking about the same thing.

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I agree - except those people will all be fine without restarting the Main Street economy. Do you think Amazon, Walmart, Apple, bank of American, etc. are suffering during the shutdown? Nope - they are profiting off it.

Like with the PPP loans - they don't want to get involved, because they can't make any money off 1% interest rates (but they don't mention getting a 5% origination feee). Yet, they scratch and crawl over each other to get the Fed 0% interest money for their prop trading desks.

I have been trying to conduct all of my business with anyone small and local since this started - I want them to be there when this is over.

Watch the towns, cities, counties, and states go bankrupt next - their tax revenues will crash and they won't be able force people to pay with money they don't have.

StairwayToSe7en said:

The issue with all of the intervention is that it adds waste along with many layers of uncertainty, be it through large scale regulation (the sheer size of compliance departments at many financial institutions is beyond anything you could imagine, which is a huge waste of resources), or through monetary policy that is constantly tinkering with the money supply or that artificially depresses returns on certain assets and pushes investors into higher risk assets.

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Well stated. And it's important to add that when the government uses its monopoly on force to drive those behaviors, we have no choice. Failing to comply gets you property and then your freedom taken away.We live in nothing more than a more complex version of the feudal system. It was a circumstance that America was intended to avoid. But, human nature is invariant in history. So, here we are - you can go to the liquor store and buy booze, but god forbid you buy a can of paint while locked in your house. Why the distinction? Hmmm - tax revenue, maybe?

maust1013 said:

The part about credit card payments isn't quite accurate. However the stimulus payments are not classified as government benefits and as such are subject to garnishment or attachment

Your Coronavirus Check Is Coming. Your Bank Can Grab It.

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I don't understand what the problem is. If you are overdrawn on your account by $500 and you get a $1,200 deposit, your balance should be $700, not $1,200.

XLIX said:

I don't understand what the problem is. If you are overdrawn on your account by $500 and you get a $1,200 deposit, your balance should be $700, not $1,200.

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OFC it should be, lol.
But that wasn't the point at all. There are/were folks who seemed to think a bank was going to decide how their money was going to be used, in no small part due to BS headlines and fear mongering. The fact that so many are so easily confused over something as straight forward as this just hurts my brain.

See video in Pub thread posted this morning. It is very important study about this virus.

Stanford Covid 19 Study