Players you hold a grudge against

Easy one for me, but somewhat of an obscure "grudge"...****ing Kevin Henry - prounounced KEE-VIN...1997, Pats have a really good team...start out 4-0 (one of my fav games of all time as a season ticket holder was the 31-whatevr late september blowout of Chicago at home - beautiful sunny fall day, great tailgate, Pats blowout, Troy Brown took a slant like 60 yards for a td...but i digress). After 4-0 start, Pats go Denver on Monday night, national audience and hang for a half w the eventual SB champs and imo one of the best teams of the 90s)...ok, getting sidetracked...
But anyway, Pats start off great, hit a couple road bumps, then right the ship and head into hosting pittsburgh in a sunday national game at 4 in foxboro...if the Pats beat pittsburgh they have a great chance at a bye and #2 seed...They start off great, jump out to a 14-0 lead, and hold a 21-13 lead just outside of the two minute warning iirc....Bledsoe throws an unGodly terrible pass that's picked off by Kevin Henry, returned and lateralled for a TD but its' called back for illegal fwd pass. But anyway, Pittsburgh scores in like 1:30, gets the 2 point conversion, ties game, gets kickoff in OT, drives the field and kicks a gw fg in OT.. God i ****ing couldn't stand those pittsburgh clubs...but for me, it's henry because if he doesn't make that pick 90% the Pats win that game, get a bye, and are HOSTING pittsburgh in the divisional roound instead of losing 7-6...
I have a deep ingrained loathing for all things Cowher Pittsburgh in the 90s - Kordell Stewart, Mark Bruener, Henry, Yancey ****ing Thigpen, Bettis, Levon Kirlkland, Lloyd, Greene....make me puke...but we got them back bigly in 2001 the bledsoe pass henry intercepted might be one of the worst passes of his career...

I'll get over it, but I'm still fussing over the players who left the team in the lurch in 2019 by not telling the team that they were retiring, and Brady's buddy who couldn't stop tweeting. I'll get over it, eventually.
=====
In the past, the obvious answers are AH and Tatum. It really isn't close for me.

After Terry Bradshaw's comments yesterday saying at least 3 QB's were better than Brady I have to add him to my list.

Maybe it deserves a separate thread but former players turned medidiots that they need to retire.

Is Fox going to keep wheeling out 71 year old TB12 until they have to wipe off his drool between ads?

Will they finally put in subtitles for Michael Irvin's attempted english?

You would think networks would want to add more younger former players that resonate with young viewers.

Vatahala said:

After Terry Bradshaw's comments yesterday saying at least 3 QB's were better than Brady I have to add him to my list.

Maybe it deserves a separate thread but former players turned medidiots that they need to retire.

Is Fox going to keep wheeling out 71 year old TB12 until they have to wipe off his drool between ads?

Will they finally put in subtitles for Michael Irvin's attempted english?

You would think networks would want to add more younger former players that resonate with young viewers.

Click to expand...

The inter era comparisons are always fascinating. The problem is that to determine status, you have to project QB's into different eras.

Roger Staubach would be a better QB in today's game than in the 1970's. Elway would probably be better today. Likewise, in order for Manning to be "Peyton"......the Colts spent 70% of the cap on offense with heavy money to skill positions.

Can you see Bradshaw trying to read today's defenses or running a Patriots offense?

What drives Montanaites crazy is when they are notified that Montana does not have the physical skill set to play in today's NFL. He was uniquely qualified for a West Coast offense that was way ahead of it's time.

Likewise, the concept of a 230 lb "Mean" Joe Green hitting a 6/4 240 lb Brady is less scary than today's "limited" 330 DL's who bench 550 and run 4.80's.

In the 70's, Alan page was playing DT at 208 lbs!

Joey007 said:

There’s really no fair reason to hate Malcolm Butler for anything at all.

Click to expand...

Not sure I agree with this based on DMac saying that the entire team knew prior to SB practices that Butler wasn't going to be playing in the SB. That says he did something to get benched.

DaBruinz said:

Not sure I agree with this based on DMac saying that the entire team knew prior to SB practices that Butler wasn't going to be playing in the SB. That says he did something to get benched.

Click to expand...

Even so, that’s a reason to hate him?

We don’t win the Seattle Super Bowl without him. He could have given the Eagles our playbook and I wouldn’t hate him.

Matt Cooke
Bill Laimbeer
Ulf Samuelson
Bernard Pollard
Alex Rodriguez

Dale Hunter.

State said:

Dale Hunter.

Click to expand...

Still remember the behind the back cheap shot he gave Craig Janney after he scored a late goal in the 1990 POs vs the Capitals...feckin scumbag...

patsfanincleveland said:

The inter era comparisons are always fascinating. The problem is that to determine status, you have to project QB's into different eras.

Roger Staubach would be a better QB in today's game than in the 1970's. Elway would probably be better today. Likewise, in order for Manning to be "Peyton"......the Colts spent 70% of the cap on offense with heavy money to skill positions.

Can you see Bradshaw trying to read today's defenses or running a Patriots offense?

What drives Montanaites crazy is when they are notified that Montana does not have the physical skill set to play in today's NFL. He was uniquely qualified for a West Coast offense that was way ahead of it's time.

Likewise, the concept of a 230 lb "Mean" Joe Green hitting a 6/4 240 lb Brady is less scary than today's "limited" 330 DL's who bench 550 and run 4.80's.

In the 70's, Alan page was playing DT at 208 lbs!

Click to expand...

When comparing QB's from different eras, you have to factor in:

1) DL and rushers used to be able to maul and brutalize the QB. There was no protection from even minor touches like today

2) CB and safety used to be able to maul and mug the WRs all over the field.


Based on this, I believe in the era before 2000, it used to be much more difficult to play QB at a high level and survive the season injury free. Therefore making comparisons across eras is like comparing apples and oranges. I give Montana and Bradshaw and Fouts huge credit for their toughness and ability to withstand violent nasty hits.

Mo Lewis. More of a love/hate thing...

captain stone said:

Still remember the behind the back cheap shot he gave Craig Janney after he scored a late goal in the 1990 POs vs the Capitals...feckin scumbag...

Click to expand...

Yes.
Making a Point of Assisting

The whole game his behavior was “borderline criminal,” in the words of the New York Times. Then what he did to an unprotected and vulnerable Craig Janney still has me peeved. I had murder on the mind then, which says a lot since I am gentle and nonviolent.

Boston Boxer said:

Roger Clemens
Tom Brady
Johnny Damon

Click to expand...

An excellent list. I would add Ray Allen and Gronk.

captain stone said:

I don't blame Martin for signing the offer sheet...I blame Booby Greer, both for allowing him to walk away and for completely wasting the draft picks given him for the loss...

Click to expand...

Curtis hitched his wagon to One Foot Out The Door Duplicitous Mr. Grocery List Fat Tuna.

Forever Fat Tuna’s boy

The fact that his next team was the JESTs makes the gravy on my hate that much sweeter

sb1 said:

That’s why I can’t blame Bledsoe for this loss. He wasn’t great obviously but he was what he was and not the kind of QB that could handle a deficiency like Lane 1 on 1 with White. Brady might have done better here.

This was all on Tuna, IMO. This, plus getting Adam V to kick to Desmond Howard, plus forgetting about Martin or the short passing game that was schooling the Packers in the 3rd quarter when the game was still in reach plus other weird decisions too. Even in his post game presser he looked like a coach who had already checked out and I guess he was.

Click to expand...

Not playing Troy Brown.

After many years, I have grown to appreciate Parcells, but he is about 10% as worthy of induction into the pats HOF as Fairbanks.

Berry would deserve it if hadn't kept starting Eason over astronomically superior quarterbacks.

That would be apparent anyway and he might have coached longer, as we could have won one or two Super Bowls.

borg said:

Curtis hitched his wagon to One Foot Out The Door Duplicitous Mr. Grocery List Fat Tuna.

Forever Fat Tuna’s boy

The fact that his next team was the JESTs makes the gravy on my hate that much sweeter

Click to expand...

His arrogance and intimidation were fundamental tools in his success, and while he really turned me off, I'm grateful McDonough got him the interview with Orthwein because otherwise we may not have had BB&TB.

He was clearly unhappy with Kraft. Even Belichick admitted his behavior down the stretch was a poor show.

Funny how it was Will who reported all the dysfunction leading up to the game; maybe he felt betrayed after helping get him the job.

forget his name but...THIS guy--------------->

Chevrolet said:

When comparing QB's from different eras, you have to factor in:

1) DL and rushers used to be able to maul and brutalize the QB. There was no protection from even minor touches like today

2) CB and safety used to be able to maul and mug the WRs all over the field.


Based on this, I believe in the era before 2000, it used to be much more difficult to play QB at a high level and survive the season injury free. Therefore making comparisons across eras is like comparing apples and oranges. I give Montana and Bradshaw and Fouts huge credit for their toughness and ability to withstand violent nasty hits.

Click to expand...

Obviously, you didn't read my post.

AGAIN.......the "maul and brutalize" was done by guys who weighed at most 240 lbs.

I pointed out Alan Page played HOF level DT at 208 lbs.

Do you actually think he's "mauling" 6"4" 240 lb Brady?

Of all the arguments, that's the dumbest. Nobody should think that guys today weighing 325 lbs who bench 550 and run 4.8's are in any weigh "less brutal" because of some restrictions.

A clydesdale at 80 percent is mega more dangerous than a shetland pony at full bore.

Actually, those guys had it easier.

Montana does not have the physical skill set to play in today's NFL
Bradshaw is too stupid.
Fouts benefited from Air Coryelle which was ahead of it's time and defenses then constructed did not have the resources to counter. He would probably have the greatest success.

patsfanincleveland said:

Obviously, you didn't read my post.

AGAIN.......the "maul and brutalize" was done by guys who weighed at most 240 lbs.

I pointed out Alan Page played HOF level DT at 208 lbs.

Do you actually think he's "mauling" 6"4" 240 lb Brady?

Of all the arguments, that's the dumbest. Nobody should think that guys today weighing 325 lbs who bench 550 and run 4.8's are in any weigh "less brutal" because of some restrictions.

A clydesdale at 80 percent is mega more dangerous than a shetland pony at full bore.

Actually, those guys had it easier.

Montana does not have the physical skill set to play in today's NFL
Bradshaw is too stupid.
Fouts benefited from Air Coryelle which was ahead of it's time and defenses then constructed did not have the resources to counter. He would probably have the greatest success.

Click to expand...

disagree.
Yes I think Brady would be drastically affected by someone like Bruce Smith, Reggie White, John Randle, Kevin Greene, Junior Seau, Randy White, Buck Buchanan, Bob Lilly, Joe Greene, Merlin Olsen, Deacon Jones coming at him full force with roughing the passer rarely if ever called. Its not all about weight, its also about velocity and speed and technique.
Brady suffered a season ending ACL tear from Bernard Pollard 6'1, 226 pounds.

Yes I think these guys would have the potential to change the way today QB's play the game and passing % would not be nearly as high

Actual Pats Fan said:

His arrogance and intimidation were fundamental tools in his success, and while he really turned me off, I'm grateful McDonough got him the interview with Orthwein because otherwise we may not have had BB&TB.

He was clearly unhappy with Kraft. Even Belichick admitted his behavior down the stretch was a poor show.

Funny how it was Will who reported all the dysfunction leading up to the game; maybe he felt betrayed after helping get him the job.

Click to expand...

In historical hindsight Globe writer Will McDonough really looks like a bitter loser who bet on the wrong horse.

Will died in January 2003 so he only had to suffer through 1 Kraft SB win.

I will always remember his Sunday notes column
in the late nineties where he always called the Pats owner Robert "thanks Myra" Kraft. I suspect maybe it was the old Catholic vs Jew dislike or maybe he was just mad losing insider access that he had under Sullivan's ownership.