Cam Newton released by Panthers

mgteich said:

I'm fine with the above analysis.

I was responding to your statement that we can't afford Cam because of cap restrictions, and that a significant issue is Studham not getting enough reps if Cam cam here.

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so why did bb bring hoyer back to town?

in order for hoyer to compete, he will be taking reps from stidham.

And After those two, what reps are left for Kessler?

Ochmed Jones said:

so why did bb bring hoyer back to town?

in order for hoyer to compete, he will be taking reps from stidham.

And After those two, what reps are left for Kessler?

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Are you asking why we paid $1M or so as insurance? We aren't even paying all of his salary.

As an aside, we need 4 arms for training camp, not 2.

Kessler will likely be the 4th arm, if we don't bring in 2 draftees, or a draftee plus an UDFA.
=======
We need a
starter
backup
a 2021 starter
a 2021 backup

Cam or Winston could fill in one of these roles for both 2020 and 2021, as could StUdham (the lock), and draftee could also. Hoyer is an emergency #3 QB for 2020, who might not even make the team.

So, one option is
CAM or WINSTON
StUdham
draftee

This provides a lot of possibilities and flexibility for the future, and in finding our QB of the future. This plan allows for the possibility of another draftee in 2021 to replace the 2020 rookie or to replace StUdham.

mgteich said:

Are you asking why we paid $1M or so as insurance? We aren't even paying all of his salary.

As an aside, we need 4 arms for training camp, not 2.

Kessler will likely be the 4th arm, if we don't bring in 2 draftees, or a draftee plus an UDFA.

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In recent years, the Pats have often rolled with 3 QBs (even last year, when they nominally had four, they tried to convert Etling to WR).

mgteich said:

A contract can be worked out that hits the 2020 cap with $6M - $8M, while deferring $15M-$20M.

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Cam Newton has only gone over the 60% completion mark twice in his 9 year career, and is coming off of a major foot surgery. Why on earth would a careful money manager like Belichick defer 15-20m dollars to the future? Are we truly that desperate? I don’t believe so.

mgteich said:

DEFENSE

You will need to accept our "major hole" at safety. Most teams would likely give us their safeties for McCourty and Chung as starters, and even some our backups as backups. And it is possible that a corner will get reps in roles filled by safeties in the past.
Sure, find a young safety. That's a good idea. But safety is NOT a 2020 major hole, at least not IMO.

And sure, I suppose we have "holes" in the DL and LB. I just don't see how replacing Van Noy and upgrade us at DL (as an improvement over 2019) are needs that we should lose sleep over.

Belichick will add 2-4 players on the defensive front seven, as he always does. And one will be a veteran LB from elsewhere and one is likely to be a high draft choice.

I just don't see the panic over the defense. We have needs in March; we always do. And these needs aren't worse than in most years.

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First off, you’re only looking at one side of the ball, and that is supposed to be the strong side of the team. Of course there are holes at DL and LB. They lost their best run stuffer and their two best linebackers. As far as the safeties go, Harmon played a key role and saw about half of the snaps. Maybe you’re banking on an older Pat Chung, but he’s clearly lost a step or two and seems to battle through a lot of injuries. Yes, it’s not a “major hole,” but I don’t know if it’s necessarily the same position of strength, either.

If we’re talking offense, it’s a train wreck. This year’s team most certainly has way more needs than any other Patriots team in recent memory. I don’t even know how far back you’d have to go? Maybe 2000?

Would be great if this comparison happens
This is why I doubt we sign Cam nor take a QB before the third round


4-Star Jarrett Stidham
247Sports Composite Ranking: No. 2 dual-threat QB; No. 38 overall

High School: Stephenville (Stephenville, Texas)

Size: 6'4", 195 lbs

Recruitment Status: Committed to Baylor

Pro-Player Comparison: Andrew Luck, Indianapolis Colts

It's remarkable to assess where Jarrett Stidham is as a quarterback prospect just two years after transitioning from wide receiver (50 catches for 819 yards and 11 touchdowns in 2012). His ability to create opportunities with excellent mobility or sit back and pick apart defenses from the pocket make him a special recruit.

He doesn't fire the ball with ridiculous velocity, but spins it to targets with elite touch and placement. Stidham completed 70 percent of 260 pass attempts as a senior, keeping teams honest with rushing abilities that resulted in 969 yards and 15 scores on the ground (Luck is quietly an extremely effective runner).

Comparing anyone to a talent like Luck at this stage of their career is nothing more than long-term projection, but Stidham will have a shot to meet expectations in a high-octane Baylor attack. He threw for 5,547 yards, 75 touchdowns and just eight interceptions in two campaigns as a high school starter.

ChrisR2223 said:

Would be great if this comparison happens
This is why I doubt we sign Cam nor take a QB before the third round


4-Star Jarrett Stidham
247Sports Composite Ranking: No. 2 dual-threat QB; No. 38 overall

High School: Stephenville (Stephenville, Texas)

Size: 6'4", 195 lbs

Recruitment Status: Committed to Baylor

Pro-Player Comparison: Andrew Luck, Indianapolis Colts

It's remarkable to assess where Jarrett Stidham is as a quarterback prospect just two years after transitioning from wide receiver (50 catches for 819 yards and 11 touchdowns in 2012). His ability to create opportunities with excellent mobility or sit back and pick apart defenses from the pocket make him a special recruit.

He doesn't fire the ball with ridiculous velocity, but spins it to targets with elite touch and placement. Stidham completed 70 percent of 260 pass attempts as a senior, keeping teams honest with rushing abilities that resulted in 969 yards and 15 scores on the ground (Luck is quietly an extremely effective runner).

Comparing anyone to a talent like Luck at this stage of their career is nothing more than long-term projection, but Stidham will have a shot to meet expectations in a high-octane Baylor attack. He threw for 5,547 yards, 75 touchdowns and just eight interceptions in two campaigns as a high school starter.

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That comparison pretty much admitted it was predicated on him putting up video game numbers in college, which already didn't happen.

Elijah said:

That comparison pretty much admitted it was predicated on him putting up video game numbers in college, which already didn't happen.

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Doesn’t mean it can’t happen.

supafly said:

Cam Newton has only gone over the 60% completion mark twice in his 9 year career, and is coming off of a major foot surgery. Why on earth would a careful money manager like Belichick defer 15-20m dollars to the future? Are we truly that desperate? I don’t believe so.

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IMO, desparate is believing that Studham and Hoyer as backup is the best option to compete for the division.

What do you think would happen to Vegas odds if we extended Thuney and then signed Cam?

mgteich said:

IMO, desparate is believing that Studham and Hoyer as backup is the best option to compete for the division.

What do you think would happen to Vegas odds if we extended Thuney and then signed Cam?

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I’m not necessarily doubting that the odds would increase, but I am doubting that they’d move that much money into the future for Cam Newton.

supafly said:

I’m not necessarily doubting that the odds would increase, but I am doubting that they’d move that much money into the future for Cam Newton.

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IMO, moving $20M-$25M into high cap years is a not much to pay to significantly improve our chances at winning our division.

Obviously, we are using Cam as a placeholder. The issue is whether Belichick would go into the season with Studham and Hoyer, and perhaps another late round rookie. Frankly, I don't money as being the primary issue.

Cam Newton is potentially really good. He needs to work hard at it like Brady did. Maybe Brady's ghost walking around the facility would inspire him. And Belichick slapping him on the ass.

I’m sorry if we are keeping the EP offense can someone tell me the success rate on players who come in late to their career to learn it?
If we are signing Cam we are completely changing the offense to match his skills which we could.

If we are really looking at a athletic QB wouldn’t it make more sense to draft Hurts in the third or McDonald in the 6th?

ChrisR2223 said:

I’m sorry if we are keeping the EP offense can someone tell me the success rate on players who come in late to their career to learn it?
If we are signing Cam we are completely changing the offense to match his skills which we could.

If we are really looking at a athletic QB wouldn’t it make more sense to draft Hurts in the third or McDonald in the 6th?

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I was under the impression the EP was more about specific terminology and emphasizing player interchangeability rather than a "system" as we know it. We've been run first at times, we've been pass first at times (in different ways, even), but it's always been EP.

I think changing the offense to fit your players would therefore be nothing new in the EP.

Also, I'm pretty sure we won't be signing Cam, and I would also prefer we drafted someone rather than throw money at a guy in his 30s who relied on mobility in his prime.

Elijah said:

I was under the impression the EP was more about specific terminology and emphasizing player interchangeability rather than a "system" as we know it. We've been run first at times, we've been pass first at times (in different ways, even), but it's always been EP.

I think changing the offense to fit your players would therefore be nothing new in the EP.

Also, I'm pretty sure we won't be signing Cam, and I would also prefer we drafted someone rather than throw money at a guy in his 30s who relied on mobility in his prime.

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I like Stidham as a starter but if we are looking At a fully mobile QB then Hurts or Macdonald as someone to develop behind him and help the team prepare for the Mahjackson QBs.

IF and I doubt this, we could get Cam on a one year prove it low $ number, plus incentives, and after a physical I'd consider it. Not enthusiastic but it seems on paper that it could improve our 2020 AFCE Championship odds.
Thuney deal money or some such would be needed. Some of that money goes to Cam plus:
Need a bit over $2M for draft class and another $2M or so for signings in season to fill injury vacancies. That leaves not much for any unexpected summer FA opportunities.
Now that I've listed the #s I'm less inclined. Does not help the rebuild.

ChrisR2223 said:

I like Stidham as a starter but if we are looking At a fully mobile QB then Hurts or Macdonald as someone to develop behind him and help the team prepare for the Mahjackson QBs.

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Honestly people who say Hurts didn't make it with Saban I think it's more Tua was the more polished player.
So Saban probably had a one on one with the kid.
I'm sure Saban would tell BB a mid round flier to develop is a great idea for him.
As far as Love in the first originally I was all for that but now I'm thinking if he is there and you really think Stidham is the heir then trade down for more capital to build around him.

Late on too many throws

Come take your credit

IllegalContact said:

Come take your credit

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This was most unkind