Picking at Old Wounds: just watched 2017 SB v. Eagles on NFL All Access

TheRainMaker said:

Believe it or not, there are people on this forum that will actually defend Eric Rowe.

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Rowe was such a bizarre player. I remember countless times where the announcers would say he had perfect coverage, but somehow the person he was covering still came down with the catch.

It was the Eagles year. Who is too blame for Foles walking in the endzone after catching a pass?

It never boils down to the Refs or 1 play. Thats Oakland Raiders tuck rule whining. The Raiders has plenty of opportunities to win that game, but to this day still bellyache that they were cheated. The Patriots had numerous chances to beat the Eagles and chances to win in every Super Bowl loss.

Butler must have done something really wrong to get benched and then shipped out of here.

Patriots looked very Colts like that night trying to tackle and stop Blount and some of the other Eagles.

I thought Brady had a better second half than he was in the first. Was nearly picked a couple of times in the first half. But it’s amazing that he went off on them like that... they had the 4th scoring defense in the league and 4th in yards. Eagles just made one more play than the Pats did - the strip sack.

I don’t think we’ll ever find out what the deal was about Butler unless Tom spills the beans to someone in Tampa.

upstater1 said:

Wow: the Eagles defense was horrific. Huge swaths of open space. Hogan was like, wide open.

The Patriots defense can be criticized, BUT there was one guy out there who failed again and again and again, while many of the other players did their job.

& that guy was Eric Rowe.

Now, I know what the general wisdom about the game is, but I never went back and watched, and I get so wound up watching Super Bowls that my normal analysis goes out the window and I hardly ever remember the details from play-to-play, so I took the wisdom with just a grain fo salt.

I have to say: the general wisdom on this game was 100% right.

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Good observation. Rowe was drafted by the Eagles. They may have had some inside knowledge of how to attack him.

I miss Malcolm Butler.

Talking about bring back old wounds, cutting it back open with knife, pouring salt over them, and then lighting the whole thing on fire

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Addictive said:

I remember their commentary and apart from the Eagles first TD they said each time Philly scored “this ones coming back” or “this is going to be overturned” only none of these were overturned and the touchdowns were allowed to stand.

I knew about the Troy Vincent issues from the day after.

This Super Bowl was egregiously refereed. One game the NFL should be ashamed of because it clearly was not fair.

Patriots beat themselves with such a poor defensive showing. But no Edelman and no Hightower those guys are difference makers on their side of the ball.

The Malcolm Butler debacle. Brandin Cooks being unaware and getting knocked out the game. Some terrible and far too cute play calling by Josh in the first half.

And yet they could have still won. And probably would have had the refs been fair.

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The Patriots definitely blew some chances.

For instance, 3rd and 1 inside the 10, and they do an end around with Cooks trying to jump over a defender standing straight up. Just should have taken the angle out of bounds, 1st down guaranteed.

Or the botched snap from Cardona and drop by Allen which lead to Gost's missed FG, which remarkably almost knuckled back inside the goal post even though he kicked it like a watermelon.

They had opportunities. As for the Eagles' running game, I thought that was simply a deliberate plan to only have 2 or 3 down linemen, lots of LBs, and 5 DBs at all times. But they did get shredded on the ground.

I don't see anything wrong here....

upstater1 said:

I didn't know that about Troy Vincent. Ridiculous.

Collinsworth and Michaels had a lot to say. Bet Goodell was not too happy with them.

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Here's an article about Vincent and Riveron being consulted on replays. Even if the game was Eagles vs. Jaguars, how could the league not realize that having a member of one team's hall of fame help make officiating decisions was a bad look? How hard would it have been to find some other official who had no affiliation with either team?

Gator Mike said:

You're a bigger man than me.

I would rather slam my junk in a car door than watch that game again.

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Facts.

sportnik said:

Good observation. Rowe was drafted by the Eagles. They may have had some inside knowledge of how to attack him.

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They certainly did. The Eagles coaches and players said they were surprised that we put Rowe in instead of Butler. So they were basically saying that Rowe sucked without actually saying it.

Nehalem said:

Rowe was such a bizarre player. I remember countless times where the announcers would say he had perfect coverage, but somehow the person he was covering still came down with the catch.

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Ellis Hobbs was very similar. He’d be stride for stride with a WR then suddenly fall down or completely whiff on the ball. Then he’d throw his arms up in the air confused.

Triumph said:

It never boils down to the Refs or 1 play. Thats Oakland Raiders tuck rule whining. The Raiders has plenty of opportunities to win that game, but to this day still bellyache that they were cheated.

Butler must have done something really wrong to get benched and then shipped out of here.

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Horrible timing with the Raiders. Take out the snow storm and the Pats get whipped. BB has struggled against West Coast offenses.

I agree about Butler. You don’t bench a starter the entire season for the Super Bowl. Makes zero sense.

DropKickFlutie said:

I miss Malcolm Butler.

Talking about bring back old wounds, cutting it back open with knife, pouring salt over them, and then lighting the whole thing on fire

.

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I’ll always appreciate what he did as an undrafted FA his rookie year ending the 10 year drought and bailing the team out of imploding on that final drive.

Had the Seahawks scored, BB would’ve been heavily criticized and rightfully so.

However, Butlers game was deteriorating for whatever reason and the Pats have arguably the best CB group in the league.

TommyBrady12 said:

They certainly did. The Eagles coaches and players said they were surprised that we put Rowe in instead of Butler. So they were basically saying that Rowe sucked without actually saying it.

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It was beyond stupid exposing Rowe like that on their best WR.

So many mistakes. And they all reared their ugly heads in a matter of about three minutes remaining:

1. Brady strip sack. He had White open on the flat. But wanted to try for the bigger gain instead. Paid dearly.

2. Absolutely no pressure whatsoever on the Eagles last FG. None. If that kicked were blocked, we all know Brady wouldn't have been denied another time. That fail was the cherry on top of a brutal special teams night.

3. Down 8. And the returner decides to stupidly run it out. Mind boggling.

Obviously the Brady dropped pass, Cooks dumb leap and not protecting himself, and finally the Richards/Bademosi/Rowe "Special" were key too. All the while your 2nd best corner is benched.

One of BB's worst games. And I am probably not crazy when I say this. But had any other coach not named Belichick benched their second best corner for no apparent reason, they would probably be fired within a day or so. Assuming they lost of course.

All that said, it's pretty remarkable that BB followed up his worst coaching performance, with arguably his best, one year later. He redeemed himself in a huge way. Thank god they did win # 6. Otherwise, this loss would sting even more. Especially with Brady now gone.

TommyBrady12 said:

They certainly did. The Eagles coaches and players said they were surprised that we put Rowe in instead of Butler. So they were basically saying that Rowe sucked without actually saying it.

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Im suprised the other team put the back up instead of the starter, I’m sure every team would say this

1. Brady didnt make many mistakes, but the big one was especially bad because even I saw White wide open in the flat immediately which wouldve likely netted a first down or close to it while being able to get out of bounds and stop the clock. 2 minutes down 5 to win it all? The general feeling at the watch party I was at was, this was a desirable situation given how we were also moving the ball at will against the Eagles. Too bad Brady was fixated on Gronk this snap and we payed dearly. All we had to do was take care of the ball in 4 down territory with 2 minutes to go. Very very doable. But we didnt.

2. Defense lost the game for us. Benching Butler was perhaps the biggest mistake by BB in his legendary tenure here. It didnt make sense from both a tactical or team moral POV. Great coaches make mistakes too like when Popovich benched Duncan on the Ray Allen 3 when my gut felt it was a mistake even if the numbers say you go small in that situation, and this was in real time not in hindsight.

Rowe was the obvious weak link from the get go, and the Eagles were right to lick their chops when we made an inexcusable decision (at least on the surface unless Butler did something to justify the benching which I find hard to believe but who knows).

3. The tactical matchups on defense to start didnt make sense. Pregame, I had said it was best for us if we put Gilmore on Jeffery. All the other Eagles WRs were more speed guys than box you out types anyway, I cant believe it took a Jeffery TD before we put Gilmore on him. The biggest matchup issue pre game to me was Ertz because we didnt have a LB who could matchup with him in space.

Losing guys like Hightower also played a part in the defensive disaster. Some years its just not your year.

SB 42, 46, and 52 along with the 2006-07 AFCC will always be the 4 years we should have won, that said if not for the zebras looking for reasons to overturn the fumble/tuck rule and the blizzard, maybe this dynasty doesnt begin. I would consider us fortunate to win SB 51 as well, and the Butler pick as improbable so the overall ring count of this great era is an accurate reflection (though I truly believe the Pats were equally as capable of winning up to 5 or 6 more titles to total 11/12).

Oh and the Pats definitely by in large get the anti Lebron treatment by the refs. The Chiefs as a team get Lebron level calls because Mahomes is the face of the league. How else do you not call KC for a single hold all game when people around me who dont follow football asked “wasnt 97 (Nick Bosa) of the white team (Niners) blatantly held (on the 3rd and 15 bomb to Hill that shouldve then been 3rd and 25).”

carmelo15 said:

Im suprised the other team put the back up instead of the starter, I’m sure every team would say this

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Well, the point I was making was they knew Rowe from his Philly days and were surprised when he was put in.

Rewatched the Patriots-Falcons SB and I knew M Mitchell was very good in crunch time. But I didn't remember how good. The kid was fantastic. Open on every play--knew the routes. If he had stayed healthy, he would have been a new David Givens. Clutch play after clutch play. It really makes you wonder about this consensus that Brady doesn't do well with rookie WRs. We've only had 3 in a decade, and one was a bust on every team he went to, the other (Harry) was hurt for most of the year, and the 3rd was Mitchell.

Now watching Ravens playoff game in '14. Brady has been so so good over the years, that we expect him to make every throw. & to be accurate. So now that he's older the consensus is that he's lost his abilities because we've seen more inaccurate throws. Yet, when he was 7 years younger, in this Ravens game, we see him overthrowing people down the middle, underthrowing guys in the boundary. & this was a very good game for the Patriots.

Still taking advantage of NFL Gamepass.

I started by watching the Eagles SB loss, then I watched 3 straight wins, so I went back to watch one of the 4 most painful losses for me (2 SBs against Giants, 06 AFCG Colts, 17 SB v Eagles).

I watched the '11 SB against the Giants yesterday. Just quickly:

1. Brady was actually hit hard on the opening safety. He was driven backward with the ball still in his hand and kind of slingshotted the ball forward as he was getting hit. I have never seen an intentional grounding where the QB was getting hit. A preposterous ridiculous call.

2. The Giants D was totally spent by the end of the 3rd qtr. I did not remember this, but Brady completed 17 passes in a row.

17 straight complete passes!

upstater1 said:

Still taking advantage of NFL Gamepass.

I started by watching the Eagles SB loss, then I watched 3 straight wins, so I went back to watch one of the 4 most painful losses for me (2 SBs against Giants, 06 AFCG Colts, 17 SB v Eagles).

I watched the '11 SB against the Giants yesterday. Just quickly:

1. Brady was actually hit hard on the opening safety. He was driven backward with the ball still in his hand and kind of slingshotted the ball forward as he was getting hit. I have never seen an intentional grounding where the QB was getting hit. A preposterous ridiculous call.

2. The Giants D was totally spent by the end of the 3rd qtr. I did not remember this, but Brady completed 17 passes in a row.

17 straight complete passes!

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Next time you watch that game, go to the very beginning of the 2nd quarter, when the Pats are inside the Vagiants' 10...3rd/4, Gronk & AH to the right, trips to the left with WW, Branch & Edelman ... While 3 DBs follow WW & Branch, Edelman is Uncovered...Easy 1st down if not TD ... Brady instead throws an INC while trying to hit AH over the tall trees...Right formation, wrong target...and a Championship-Losing 4-point swing...

Back to the victories.

Seattle Super Bowl. I'll keep it short.

Late 3rd quarter. Patriots doing nothing on offense. Seattle has 2 straight TDs, they are up 24-14.

New England is reeling. 3rd down for Seattle from the 50 yard line. Russell Wilson drops back, Seattle runs a rub route, wheel route, for Kearse. Malcolm Butler is on him but because he is slightly interfered with by a Seattle WR, Kearse breaks into the open, and Wilson drops a perfect touch pass over Kearse's inside shoulder. Kearse actually has the ball for a second, and it would be 1st and 10 Seattle at about the Patriots 20, and for all purposes, the game might be over here.

Butler somehow makes up all that ground after falling off 3 or 4 yards, and at the last second, as Kearse reels the ball in, Butler sticks his arm in, grabs Kearse's elbow, and shakes the ball loose. Incomplete.

I didn't remember this play, but it appears Butler saved our bacon more than once this game. The Patriots might have been cooked if Kearse caught that.