[Old 2020 thread] NFL Free Agency/Trade Rumors:

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

This got me thinking...

NFL running backs were so valuable up until around 2000. In the 90s we saw so many Super Bowl teams with great RBs, and same with the 80s, 70s, 60s, and 50s. But in the 90s, I remember Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Thurman Thomas, Terrell Davis, Ricky Waters, etc. The running back position used to be as valuable as the QB.

At least that was the perception.

With the exception of real superstar RBs like Jim Brown and Barry Sanders, do you think running backs are generally overrated in NFL history? Is it mostly the blocking, strong passing game that keeps defenses back, etc? Or is the plug n play running back a phenomenon of the last twenty years?

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Like I said in an eariler post a lot of it is supply & demand. If you don't have a QB you lean on other aspects like a running game, defense. Another is coaching. Guys who know nothing else and just repeat what they see around the league.

Look at some of the names you mentioned and some others RBs from that era though.

You had Smith on the Cowboys but anyone who watched that team knows they passed to set up the run. Not the other way around.

Sanders was one of the most exciting players ever. How that helped his team.

It's not that they're less or more valuable. Teams now just understand what the passing game can do and you don't need elite from the RB position.

I called Deus a casual bc that's exactly how his post come off. You don't need elite from that position. You need to move the chains/short yardage, pass pro, recs and bringing that physicality to the defense.

You don't need elite. You really think Carolina and NYG are itching to pony up that $ for a 2nd contract when both teams are at the bottom of the barrel?

Personally I think Carolina is wishing they could pay Tre White > Caff. Who I absolutely love but again who's more valuable?

luuked said:

Talk for yourself.

I rather watch a team that competes for the playoffs and then maybe goes on a run than sit through seasons filled with losses just for better draft picks.

Championships are the cherry on top and not something essential.

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People blow my mind. Idk why, I should be used to it, but all this middle of the pack crap is frustrating. Teams appear year in and year out that look like they have no chance and end up fielding a competitive team, why would the Pats be any different? Hell, if we are gonna suck, the least we can do is the play the role of battle hardened spoilers. The experience and confidence gained by the players on the roster is invaluable. So many people ready to throw in the towel got me shakin’ my damn head.

iapatsfan said:

Look at the Patriots objectively. With their present talent level they aren't competing for anything.

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This is why Tom Brady is in Tampa Bay instead of Foxboro. Tom got frustrated
last year with the inability of his receivers to get open, running the wrong routes,
and dropping his passes. Their first few signings this year do not not include a decent tight end or wide receiver. Exit Tom Brady.

iapatsfan said:

Why?

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Because he’s a good football player..

iapatsfan said:

Look at the Patriots objectively. With their present talent level they aren't competing for anything.

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Have you checked the garbage teams that regularly get wildcard spots?


Of course they will be in the fold to compete for at least a playoff spot and play some tight games even against teams that look better on paper. With the ball bouncing their way a couple times they might even win some of those.

This is about being entertained by exciting games through the season and not jerking off to potential draft picks in the offseason.

patsfanfromoversea said:

Has Eifert signed a new contract ?
Did hope we could sign him compared to a mid round TE.

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Eifert is not a FA. He'd be gone by now if he was.

Edit: I didn't see that he re-signed with Cincy. Weird he's still out there.

iapatsfan said:

Look at the Patriots objectively. With their present talent level they aren't competing for anything.

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Not one player who left was highly regarded when he came to New England, except perhaps for Collins. You don't think Bill and the staff can create good football players?

luuked said:

Have you checked the garbage teams that regularly get wildcard spots?


Of course they will be in the fold to compete for at least a playoff spot and play some tight games even against teams that look better on paper. With the ball bouncing their way a couple times they might even win some of those.

This is about being entertained by exciting games through the season and not jerking off to potential draft picks in the offseason.

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Teams who, as of now, are almost certainly not competing for the AFC playoffs:

Bengals
Chargers
Jaguars

I think it's fair to say that it's too early to be ruling anyone else out, though the Patriots have slid to the "more outside than in" side of line.

iapatsfan said:

Look at the Patriots objectively. With their present talent level they aren't competing for anything.

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By the time the season starts, the patriots will be predicted to win 9 and 11 games, and be competitive for the division.

TomPatriot said:

Not one player who left was highly regarded when he came to New England, except perhaps for Collins. You don't think Bill and the staff can create good football players?

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Where are you trying to go with this? Just for a couple of quick examples:

• KVN wasn't a one year developmental turnaround
• Shelton never really developed
• Ebner was always just a ST guy

Ebron gone.

Are we really stuck with LaGlass and the other pretend TE?

UptownPatsFan said:

Because he’s a good football player..

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It doesn't make us competitive. We need a qb. Until then, tanking should be the plan.

PatsfanTN said:

Ebron gone.

Are we really stuck with LaGlass and the other pretend TE?

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Player acquisition doesn't end on Day 3 of the season.

BaconGrundleCandy said:

Like I said in an eariler post a lot of it is supply & demand. If you don't have a QB you lean on other aspects like a running game, defense. Another is coaching. Guys who know nothing else and just repeat what they see around the league.

Look at some of the names you mentioned and some others RBs from that era though.

You had Smith on the Cowboys but anyone who watched that team knows they passed to set up the run. Not the other way around.

Sanders was one of the most exciting players ever. How that helped his team.

It's not that they're less or more valuable. Teams now just understand what the passing game can do and you don't need elite from the RB position.

I called Deus a casual bc that's exactly how his post come off. You don't need elite from that position. You need to move the chains/short yardage, pass pro, recs and bringing that physicality to the defense.

You don't need elite. You really think Carolina and NYG are itching to pony up that $ for a 2nd contract when both teams are at the bottom of the barrel?

Personally I think Carolina is wishing they could pay Tre White > Caff. Who I absolutely love but again who's more valuable?

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Agree...White is much more valuable than McCaffrey. And this is why I was on the Gilmore DPOY bandwagon last year because I think a shutdown CB is generally vastly underrated (look at their salaries compared to edge rushers.)

In addition, I researched and noted that the Steelers from roughly 2016-17 were much better as an offense when they played without Le'Veon Bell (pretty big sample size), and I think this is likely true with most teams that doesn't fully utilize an effective passing offense and instead tries to jack up the rushing attempts in some confusing attempt to control the ball, when in fact they're just getting fewer first downs, scoring less points, and winning less games as a result.

But it's still fascinating that football history is filled with the perception that running backs are the stars and at least as valuable, if not more, than the quarterback. That's how the perception was when I was growing up.

I think part of the devaluation of running backs is due to the realization the passing game is better and part of it is because football has evolved to this concept over time,.

So did the Manning 2004 griping and rule changes play into this as well? QBs now throw for such few INTs compared to the old school days. The running back workhorse was partly built with the concept that throwing too much led to more turnovers, and the actual passing game results weren't as impressive back then.

Finally, I wonder if part of this evolution also has to do with the size of the players these days. Rules based on the LOS and formations did not adjust to the increased size and speed of o-linemen, d-linemen, and linebackers. Maybe it's just my old false perception, but it seems like getting big holes to run through was more common when guys weren't so darn athletic and huge.

mgteich said:

Player acquisition doesn't end on Day 3 of the season.

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True and good point, but how do you see them addressing the issue? Serious question btw

iapatsfan said:

It doesn't make us competitive. We need a qb. Until then, tanking should be the plan.

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BB makes us competitive bruh..So, you’re essentially saying that we should only sign QBs? Gotcha

Also, Stud-arm is our QB..at least for now..

borisman said:

Eifert is not a FA. He'd be gone by now if he was.

Edit: I didn't see that he re-signed with Cincy. Weird he's still out there.

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Now that Ebron signed, Eifert and Walker maybe the next off the board.

UptownPatsFan said:

Because he’s a good football player..

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I agree with that. Might be our best DL day one.
DW Toys

mgteich said:

Player acquisition doesn't end on Day 3 of the season.

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Pretty close.
DW Toys