Coronavirus RESPECTFUL Discussion Only! (Mod edit: Closed)

IcyPatriot said:

PatJew is punishing me ...
I have flogged myself so much all the skin on my back is gone.

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For a second I thought you wrote St Patjew.

captain insano said:

ACT for America
@ACTforAmerica
The Fake News Media: Under Barack Obama H1N1 Virus U.S. Cases 60.8 Million U.S. deaths 22,469 No panic, media and public remained calm.
@realDonaldTrump
Chinese #Coronavirus U.S. Cases 1,200 U.S. Deaths 37 (All Vulnerable) The media is causing MASS HYSTERIA for NO REASON!

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Yes, there was less concern under the Obama administration because people saw and knew that they (note - "they" not "he") would do everything possible to address it and would create policy based on science and the public good.

IcyPatriot said:

My take on the topic is the media is over blowing the topic causing panic in the streets.
Many of them are politicizing the topic which does not help at all. Government by it's very nature is never up to the task when there is a crisis regardless of party.

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Do you mean American government or government in general?

Because if you mean any government in general, that would be incorrect.

Singapore, for example came down hard and fast on the outbreak, their ability to track the outbreak has been outstanding. They've actually invoked their fake news law, "Protection from Online Falsehoods and Manipulation Act" to block dissemination of fake news and information from facebook and twitter.

"We consider the detection of 18 cases by Feb 4, 2020, in Singapore to be a gold standard of near-perfect detection," wrote four epidemiologists at Harvard's T. H. Chan School of Public Health.

betterthanthealternative said:

Yes, there was less concern under the Obama administration because people saw and knew that they (note - "they" not "he") would do everything possible to address it and would create policy based on science and the public good.

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Your insult was removed or perhaps you missed some posts before the one you made? Several members took advantage of Ian's goodwill to push their political agenda with a barrage of insults to others ... now they are out of the thread.

IcyPatriot said:

Your insult was removed or perhaps you missed some posts before the one you made?

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Yeah, I hadn't caught up yet, sorry!

PP2 said:

Do you mean American government or government in general?

Because if you mean any government in general, that would be incorrect.

Singapore, for example came down hard and fast on the outbreak, their ability to track the outbreak has been outstanding. They've actually invoked their fake news law, "Protection from Online Falsehoods and Manipulation Act" to block dissemination of fake news and information from facebook and twitter.

"We consider the detection of 18 cases by Feb 4, 2020, in Singapore to be a gold standard of near-perfect detection," wrote four epidemiologists at Harvard's T. H. Chan School of Public Health.

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Singapore is an interesting case study in the intersection of authoritarianism and democracy. When there's no crisis, their level of government influence and citizen compliance can feel creepy and overdone to people from western democracies. When there is a crisis, we love what they can accomplish.

Getting thrown in jail for dropping chewing gum on the sidewalk is a good example. Feels like an oppressive overreaction when you are the one in jail; feels like good social order when you see how clean the streets are.

betterthanthealternative said:

Singapore is an interesting case study in the intersection of authoritarianism and democracy. When there's no crisis, their level of government influence and citizen compliance can feel creepy and overdone to people from western democracies. When there is a crisis, we love what they can accomplish.

Getting thrown in jail for dropping chewing gum on the sidewalk is a good example. Feels like an oppressive overreaction when you are the one in jail; feels like good social order when you see how clean the streets are.

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Depends on if you were born into that kind of society or not.

If you weren't, it's ridiculous.

betterthanthealternative said:

Singapore is an interesting case study in the intersection of authoritarianism and democracy. When there's no crisis, their level of government influence and citizen compliance can feel creepy and overdone to people from western democracies. When there is a crisis, we love what they can accomplish.

Getting thrown in jail for dropping chewing gum on the sidewalk is a good example. Feels like an oppressive overreaction when you are the one in jail; feels like good social order when you see how clean the streets are.

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I dont know, throwing people in jail for littering sounds like a good idea to me. The number of empty nip bottles I see on a run are uncountable

betterthanthealternative said:

Singapore is an interesting case study in the intersection of authoritarianism and democracy. When there's no crisis, their level of government influence and citizen compliance can feel creepy and overdone to people from western democracies. When there is a crisis, we love what they can accomplish.

Getting thrown in jail for dropping chewing gum on the sidewalk is a good example. Feels like an oppressive overreaction when you are the one in jail; feels like good social order when you see how clean the streets are.

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Littering and graffiti and stuff are the most cited things but you can also be arrested for, say, noise violations or having sex too loudly. People call the cops for everything. (I have a friend who's a Singaporean cop.)

But there's also a seedy underbelly of Tongs and Malay organized crime that the government allows to operate more or less openly, a la the Yakuza in Japan. And there is extreme inequality to the point that there's effectively a racial caste system with English speakers at the top, Han Chinese in the middle, and Malays on the bottom.

It's a weird country and it largely only works because it's tiny and therefore easy to administer and keep under wraps, plus its high standards of living are allowed because its a financial haven. It's really not comparable to anywhere else in the world. (Bahrain or some of the Emirates come close, but the Wahhabism and monarchy makes it very different.)

betterthanthealternative said:

Singapore is an interesting case study in the intersection of authoritarianism and democracy. When there's no crisis, their level of government influence and citizen compliance can feel creepy and overdone to people from western democracies. When there is a crisis, we love what they can accomplish.

Getting thrown in jail for dropping chewing gum on the sidewalk is a good example. Feels like an oppressive overreaction when you are the one in jail; feels like good social order when you see how clean the streets are.

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The US government has the ability and power to act like an authoritarian state during an emergency, hence the "state of emergency" stature.

This isn't really about democracy vs. authoritarianism, but about utter and blatant incompetence. "I don't take responsibility for that at all" is a failure in leadership. If BB had said such a thing, we'd all be calling for his head on a pike.

The house just passed an emergency package to deal with this pandemic crisis and right now that bill is just sitting on Mitch McConnell's desk. The senate is in recess and Mitch McConnell is MIA.

PP2 said:

The US government has the ability and power to act like an authoritarian state during an emergency, hence the "state of emergency" stature.

This isn't really about democracy vs. authoritarianism, but about utter and blatant incompetence. "I don't take responsibility for that at all" is a failure in leadership. If BB had said such a thing, we'd all be calling for his head on a pike.

The house just passed an emergency package to deal with this pandemic crisis and right now that bill is just sitting on Mitch McConnell's desk. The senate is in recess and Mitch McConnell is MIA.

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It is kind of bonkers that the Senate has decided they'll just put it off until after the weekend.

Not sure I want the US government to use a crisis to slip further into authoritarianism, however. History's pretty clear that emergency powers are difficult to walk back.

So I went to the local Stop n Shop at 6am this morning to get some water and bread and bananas and juice. I get organic vegetables delivered and some other things, as well. There was a line of about 25 people to get in. Wut? Once inside there were no loaves of bread...I prefer oatmeal or 12 grain...takes me about 3 weeks to eat 1 loaf. It's my vice. There was some water but no 2 Liter bottles that I like (yeah, I have a Brita but I am also a creature of habit.). Bananas and juice, it is. I noticed the meat section had been ravaged but there was a trolley of Perdue chicken that had not been stocked yet. There was no toilet paper. I wasn't near that particular aisle and didn't need any but yet thankfully there was a woman shouting at the top of her shrieking lungs, "There's no toilet paper. There's no toilet paper." She was ignored by all.

I know this isn't new to many but I hadn't been food shopping in a couple of weeks and I try not to watch any news since I've gotten off my medication. Perhaps that was a mistake. (I'm kidding....or am I?)

I regret having seen the movie, Idiocracy, because this trip would have been much funnier to me as I was experiencing it. Now it seems lame and depressing. I feel like I should get tested but for what I'm not really sure.

PP2 said:

The US government has the ability and power to act like an authoritarian state during an emergency, hence the "state of emergency" stature.

This isn't really about democracy vs. authoritarianism, but about utter and blatant incompetence. "I don't take responsibility for that at all" is a failure in leadership. If BB had said such a thing, we'd all be calling for his head on a pike.

The house just passed an emergency package to deal with this pandemic crisis and right now that bill is just sitting on Mitch McConnell's desk. The senate is in recess and Mitch McConnell is MIA.

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He's not MIA. Senate was going to be on break all week and he's pulling them back to vote on Monday.

robertweathers said:

He's not MIA. Senate was going to be on break all week and he's pulling them back to vote on Monday.

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A national emergency and it can wait until Monday? Really? There's absolutely no justification for that. And yes, he's MIA. He's not even in Washington.

50-yard-line said:

For Trump? Pfft. I knew who he was when he was apolitical. I knew who he was when he was a Democrat. I knew who he was when he was a Green.

Look at his record of sleaze and understand that my disgust with this clown is well-earned.

Having said that, maybe you'll get around to disproving anything I said, or answering the rather simple checklist you were just handed.

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Keep arguing with yourself. Jesus.

PP2 said:

The US government has the ability and power to act like an authoritarian state during an emergency, hence the "state of emergency" stature.

This isn't really about democracy vs. authoritarianism, but about utter and blatant incompetence. "I don't take responsibility for that at all" is a failure in leadership. If BB had said such a thing, we'd all be calling for his head on a pike.

The house just passed an emergency package to deal with this pandemic crisis and right now that bill is just sitting on Mitch McConnell's desk. The senate is in recess and Mitch McConnell is MIA.

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Let's call out lack of leadership on both sides. Delaying the process by sticking abortion funding in a Coronavirus relief bill was ****ing disgusting. And I'm not anti abortion.

Maybe the final bill is ready for vote earlier if it's not packed with political garbage that has nothing to do with the pandemic.

PP2 said:

A national emergency and it can wait until Monday? Really? There's absolutely no justification for that. And yes, he's MIA. He's not even in Washington.

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Dude chill. It will pass Monday. It takes time to get all 100 senators back in town.

PP2 said:

A national emergency and it can wait until Monday? Really? There's absolutely no justification for that. And yes, he's MIA. He's not even in town.

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That means he's home. Christ you act like he's polar bear hunting in the Northwest Territory.

Operationally things are already in motion. The senate vote is not preventing that.

Relax.

Dingleberry said:

Let's call out lack of leadership on both sides. Delaying the process by sticking abortion funding in a Coronavirus relief bill was ****ing disgusting. And I'm not anti abortion.

Maybe the final bill is ready for vote earlier if it's not packed with political garbage that has nothing to do with the pandemic.

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Yep and there most likely was a lot more crap and pork-barrell BS than that in the bill.

TommyBrady12 said:

Dude chill. It will pass Monday. It takes time to get all 100 senators back in town.

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What part of "national emergency" do you not understand? A pandemic response is measured in hours, not days.