Brady needs weapons.. But, Patriots don't have tons of cap space. How can they free up more?

primetime said:

Problem with cutting players to make cap space is you then have to replace the players you cut. That's fine if there's a replacement on the roster, but neither Sanu nor Cannon have readymade replacements (unless you believe Harry/Cajuste are ready to be that).

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And even if you think Harry is ready to take a step up, that would still leave them with Edelman, Harry, Dorsett (not sure, is he signed?), and Meyers at WR. So even if Harry lives up to first round billing in year two, you need another reliable target at WR. I'm guessing anyone we'd sign who would be a "guarantee" of that would cost more than $6m per year, otherwise we're just taking a flier on someone who could be good, or could be the next Sanu.

It all depends on how much of his lack of production they think was from a combination of his high ankle sprain and the general lack of chemistry on the offense. They liked him for a long time before they made the trade, so I could see them giving him a shot to compete.

supafly said:

I believe that Sanu and Cannon get you about 10m. Simon frees up about 1.6m, although that’s not a move that I see being made.
Gilmore could be in line for an extension (?) We’re also hoping for a bit of relief from either the Hernandez or Brown grievances.

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Wait........ I thought the 2nd rounder for Sanu was justified on the basis that there was another year on the contract that was cheap and has value.................

Now we cut that cheap year?!

carmelo15 said:

Im pretty sure he isn’t expecting big names like Odell or Hopkins he’s not an idiot he knows how salary cap works. He just doesn’t want to be throwing to the garbage we had last year literally the worst receiving core in the league.

Signing Emmanuel Sanders and trading for OJ Howard could work

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In one game last year Patriots had Gunner and Meyers take 50 snaps each while they had no FB or TE and were stuck in a formation they couldn't get out of for lack of personnel.

We're not exaggerating when we say our situation was dire.

Tunescribe said:

(A) This team is not primed for a deep playoff run with or without Brady.

(B) Let Brady walk, have Stidham battle it out with a rookie in training camp.

(C) Use the money to sign Thuney, Van Noy and whoever else they can to field a balanced and competitive team.

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(A) WRONG: team just needs minor adjustments to get running game going w better OL, TE, FB, and add WR.

(B) WRONG: Stidham is a complete unknown and needs another year under Brady to develop and learn the system. Letting Brady walk is not the answer.

(C) WRONG: both Thuney and KVN will get overpaid but not by the Patriots. You're willing to overpay for a LB and a OG but not for the GOAT QB? That makes zero sense.

In regards to Van Noy and Thuney, and how there new contracts tie into our cap space: The big unknowns we have is how BB feels about the 2nd/3rd year players that could compete for their roles if they left. I love both players, and hope we can keep them. But if Froholdt/Cajuste are viewed highly, or they think that Bentley/Winovich will be ready for bigger roles, it becomes a cap numbers game. But how they actually feel about those players is anyone's guess at this point.

XLIX said:

It is very easily to structure contracts in such a way that a player’s first year has a low cap number.

I think the team is waiting on a potential resolution to the new CBA so they can see where everything stands.

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The new CBA is the big unknown here. If a new CBA isn’t agreed to it’s going to dramatically effect our ability to extend/re-structure contracts to save cap space in 2020 due to the 30% rule.

If a new CBA is signed we will have a lot of flexibility to create cap space if necessary. Extensions to Gilmore and Hightower for example could save over $12mil in 2020.

One of the moves I have posted about in a few different threads is trying to trade for OBJ because he doesn’t have any guaranteed money left on his contract and would be easy to re-structure to drastically lower his cap hit in 2020. If a new CBA isn’t signed though, every contract will have to abide by the 30% rule which would make it almost impossible to significantly reduce OBJ’s cap hit.

The timeline of this CBA negotiation is going to have a big impact on what the Pats can do this off-season.

TheRainMaker said:

I think the question most people are ignoring is who is actually available that would entice Brady to have faith in the Pats to sign? And what are the chances these players would want to go to NE?

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Yeah considering the very short Brady window.

primetime said:

Problem with cutting players to make cap space is you then have to replace the players you cut. That's fine if there's a replacement on the roster, but neither Sanu nor Cannon have readymade replacements (unless you believe Harry/Cajuste are ready to be that).

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yea trading a 2nd rounder for Sanu was a mistake, but we don’t want to compound that mistake by cutting him now. At the very least need to have him compete in training camp

JarOfMayo51 said:

yea trading a 2nd rounder for Sanu was a mistake, but we don’t want to compound that mistake by cutting him now. At the very least need to have him compete in training camp

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There are limited circumstances in which you might cut him, but I think the thing with Sanu is:

(1) He's been a consistent 60/750/4 guy his entire 8 season career for multiple teams playing second-fiddle to a true number 1 receiver. Those are basically healthy Danny Amendola with the Patriots numbers. Through eight games with the Falcons this season, his pace was 70/700/2 playing despite the emergence of Ridley and Hooper. After the Ravens game, his pace was 80/750/4. Then he got hurt, missed a game, and played poorly when he returned (though at that point the whole offense was sputtering.) The guy's only 30 and isn't reliant on athleticism, so given that we have 7.5 seasons of data that he's a consistent 60/750/4 guy and less than half a season of data suggesting he's bad, we should expect that's really who he is.

(2) A $6.5m cap hit is peanuts for that level of production. Corey Davis has a $6.5m cap hit on his rookie contract for next season. Marquise Goodwin has a $6.5m cap hit and he has a fifth the career production of Sanu at the same age. Willie Snead has a $6m cap hit and couldn't even see the field in Baltimore. UFA contracts or extensions from last season include Adam Humphries ($9m/year, 37 receptions), Devin Funchess ($10m/year, 3 receptions), Sterling Shepherd ($10.25m/year, 54 receptions), Tyrell Williams ($11m/year, 43 receptions), Albert Wilson ($8m/year, 43 receptions), and Paul Richardson ($8m/year, 23 receptions). None of those guys had Sanu's resume and they all got more money than him. Sanu on the open market, even after the down half-season with the Patriots, would cost $10m in free agency.

So maybe you need the money for something else, but to replace Sanu, you're going to have to pay more than Sanu. The only fathomable better use for that money is if you need it to make a Beckham or Cooper or something work, and you're confident Harry (or Meyers, rookie, or cheap free agent like Dorsett) can pick up the slack as your WR3. A Patriots WR3 like Hogan or Amendola had been is usually looking at somewhere between 40 and 65 catches, 600-750 yards, and 3 or 4 TDs, though that's with Gronk and Edelman as your top two targets. (LaFell put up 75/950/7 in his best season as a the third target, so that's the high end of the spectrum but probably not going to happen again because that was a Brady MVP year.)

Wilfork#75 said:

The new CBA is the big unknown here. If a new CBA isn’t agreed to it’s going to dramatically effect our ability to extend/re-structure contracts to save cap space in 2020 due to the 30% rule.

If a new CBA is signed we will have a lot of flexibility to create cap space if necessary. Extensions to Gilmore and Hightower for example could save over $12mil in 2020.

One of the moves I have posted about in a few different threads is trying to trade for OBJ because he doesn’t have any guaranteed money left on his contract and would be easy to re-structure to drastically lower his cap hit in 2020. If a new CBA isn’t signed though, every contract will have to abide by the 30% rule which would make it almost impossible to significantly reduce OBJ’s cap hit.

The timeline of this CBA negotiation is going to have a big impact on what the Pats can do this off-season.

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Just in regards to this previous post, if the new CBA isn’t signed before next season, the 30% rule will also apply to signing or re-signing any free agents. This will further reduce any chances of re-signing guys like Thuney and KVN.

If this is the case only teams with large amounts of cap space will be able to sign players to big contracts because they won’t be able to heavily backload them to fit into the 2020 cap. I think with the Patriots current cap situation we will probably only see them sign guys to short term deals if no CBA is agreed to because we won’t have the cap flexibility to commit to long term deals.

Biffins said:

Wait........ I thought the 2nd rounder for Sanu was justified on the basis that there was another year on the contract that was cheap and has value.................

Now we cut that cheap year?!

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Well, yeah, because he sucks.

Yup! Sanu was our injured #2 to Edelman's injured #1.

Sanu should go into camp to compete with Harry for #3 and #4 WR reps. I think that it very possible that we extend Sanu to save a couple of million of cap space. Sanu might get $3.5M, $4.5M, $5.5M with option bonuses in Year 2 and 3, and a signing bonus of $3M.

The $2M might be used to sign a low level WR to compete with Meyers, perhaps $1M and a $3M bonus over 3 years.

With ZERO cap hit, we would have Edelman, OPEN, Sanu, Harry, Meyers/fa (and probably a late round draft pick and a UDFA).
======
The OPEN (and more difficult) issues are how to deal with the need for a #1 or #2 WR, and the need at TE. But even this start is better than last year.

primetime said:

There are limited circumstances in which you might cut him, but I think the thing with Sanu is:

(1) He's been a consistent 60/750/4 guy his entire 8 season career for multiple teams playing second-fiddle to a true number 1 receiver. Those are basically healthy Danny Amendola with the Patriots numbers. Through eight games with the Falcons this season, his pace was 70/700/2 playing despite the emergence of Ridley and Hooper. After the Ravens game, his pace was 80/750/4. Then he got hurt, missed a game, and played poorly when he returned (though at that point the whole offense was sputtering.) The guy's only 30 and isn't reliant on athleticism, so given that we have 7.5 seasons of data that he's a consistent 60/750/4 guy and less than half a season of data suggesting he's bad, we should expect that's really who he is.

(2) A $6.5m cap hit is peanuts for that level of production. Corey Davis has a $6.5m cap hit on his rookie contract for next season. Marquise Goodwin has a $6.5m cap hit and he has a fifth the career production of Sanu at the same age. Willie Snead has a $6m cap hit and couldn't even see the field in Baltimore. UFA contracts or extensions from last season include Adam Humphries ($9m/year, 37 receptions), Devin Funchess ($10m/year, 3 receptions), Sterling Shepherd ($10.25m/year, 54 receptions), Tyrell Williams ($11m/year, 43 receptions), Albert Wilson ($8m/year, 43 receptions), and Paul Richardson ($8m/year, 23 receptions). None of those guys had Sanu's resume and they all got more money than him. Sanu on the open market, even after the down half-season with the Patriots, would cost $10m in free agency.

So maybe you need the money for something else, but to replace Sanu, you're going to have to pay more than Sanu. The only fathomable better use for that money is if you need it to make a Beckham or Cooper or something work, and you're confident Harry (or Meyers, rookie, or cheap free agent like Dorsett) can pick up the slack as your WR3. A Patriots WR3 like Hogan or Amendola had been is usually looking at somewhere between 40 and 65 catches, 600-750 yards, and 3 or 4 TDs, though that's with Gronk and Edelman as your top two targets. (LaFell put up 75/950/7 in his best season as a the third target, so that's the high end of the spectrum but probably not going to happen again because that was a Brady MVP year.)

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venecol said:

(A) WRONG: team just needs minor adjustments to get running game going w better OL, TE, FB, and add WR.

(B) WRONG: Stidham is a complete unknown and needs another year under Brady to develop and learn the system. Letting Brady walk is not the answer.

(C) WRONG: both Thuney and KVN will get overpaid but not by the Patriots. You're willing to overpay for a LB and a OG but not for the GOAT QB? That makes zero sense.

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How can you say that Stidham is a complete unknown, and then turn around and say he needs another year?

TheRainMaker said:

I think the question most people are ignoring is who is actually available that would entice Brady to have faith in the Pats to sign? And what are the chances these players would want to go to NE?

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Check out the top 50 free agents list.

@RB I love Derrick Henry sitting at #12.

@ TE makes sense either Hooper or Hunter Henry .

@ WR Emmanuel Sanders or AJ Green.

David Johnson is intriguing

Derrick Henry on the Patriots roster is like having a Super Blount Force...
BTW - Hooper over Hunter.

Sign AJGreen on a prove-it contract (as a 1yr - with 1yr option).

Trade Sony and/or Wynn for some low end 1st or high end 2nd rd picks.

Use them picks to trade for a studd TE. Darren Waller, maybe?

We can always draft another lineman or running back.

zipster9 said:

(a) If BillB is going to add better weapons, how can they create more cap space?

(b) With that freed up cap space, who would you sign? This is specifically offensive weapons?

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Don't resign Brady. Tank.

That's an easy formula for freeing up cap space.

ChrisR2223 said:

David Johnson is intriguing

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Agreed but if he’s released wouldn’t Arians be all over him

Sony is getting nothing more than a 4th at most in trade.
Just saw a mock where we take Eason ad 23 and Love goes at 31 with the Bucs trading to the niners spot to grab him.
Can anybody sell me on this or is this a disaster?