Frank Clark: Patriots Dynasty Dead...Chiefs "New Dynasty"

archstanton543 said:

The AFC does suck compared to the NFC. It's just that the top 2-3 teams in the AFC are better than the top 5-6 teams in the NFC.

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That explains the whopping 33-32 advantage that the NFC had vs the AFC this year, only the 7th time the NFC has won out of the last 20 years and 8th out of the last 25.

I don't know which misinformation bothers me more, that the NFC is stronger than the AFC or that Michael Jordan was better than Bill Russell. At least in the case of Russell most people who chime in didn't see him play.

bormio said:

People do not give the Steelers of the first 15 years of this century enough credit (maybe cause the Pats have owned them). 2 SB wins, could have been a 3rd (in 6 years in 2010). Plus AFCCG losses to the Pats in ‘01, ‘04 and ‘16. If not for the Pats ... the Colts were not “hands down” the other team of the 2000’s decade.

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The Steelers had Indy's number. That was why Indy tanked a Jete game in 2009 instead of going for the undefeated season. That helped put the Jete in the playoffs instead of Pitt.

f*ck Frank Clark

KC will not be a dynasty for one simple reason.

Andy Reid aint no Bill Belichick

They'll probably win a few. Mahomes is heads and shoulders above the rest of the league and they'll be able to sign him long-term at the dawning of a new CBA.

Deus Irae said:

Also Patriots fans - KC isn't going to be a dynasty, because .... ???

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Well, let's see.
KC has 24 Free Agents going into 2020, though 4 are ERFA and 1 is an RFA (Keith Reaser)

Included in that are HUGE pieces of their defense in Brashad Breeland, Chris Jones, and Kendall Fuller.

KC has a whopping $16M in Cap space. The most money they can free up with a Vet cut is $7M and that is Sammy Watkins. They have 2 players with HUGE guaranteed Salaries in Clark and Mathieu.

Because this is the LAST YEAR of the CBA, there are restrictions on what teams can do in terms of pushing money out. And with the NFLPA telling players to plan for up to 2 years of NO PAY, it's going to be interesting to see how they (and other teams) free up money..

carmelo15 said:

even if mahomes doesn’t take a record breaking deal no way he settles for anything less than top 3 salary. Kelce/Hill have to get paid in the next 2 years there both gonna be top 3 at there positions add Chris Jones whose getting paid this year. That’s a lot of money to 4 guys there gonna have to pick between kelce/Hill the minute that happens that offense won’t be explosive anymore. This isn’t a team that dominated there we to a ring they were down every game now try that after losing players.

oh add Fisher, Mathieu, and Sorenson have to get paid by next offseason.

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Kelce is DONE in 2-3 years. He's 30 already.
Mathieu already got paid. He won't see another huge deal before he retires.
Hill just got his deal, but he'll be up in 2022.

2021 KC Free agents:
Watkins, Erving, Mahomes, Sorenson, Damien Williams, Colquitt, Reiter. (bold are the big names)

primetime said:

They'll probably win a few. Mahomes is heads and shoulders above the rest of the league and they'll be able to sign him long-term at the dawning of a new CBA.

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I think it's going to be like any other non Patriots team we've seen with a generational QB. All the same hyperbole about Mahomes (which is well-earned) was said about Rodgers 9 years ago, but he still only has the one ring. Same with Brees and Wilson. I'm pretty sure the only one of those 4 QBs who won while making a lot of money is Brees. You could pretty easily make the argument that the other 3 happened because the QB was so cheap, the team was able to load up their roster.

Things are going to be different when Mahomes makes $40M/year. I have all the respect in the world for him, and believe the potential is there to surpass even our guy in the GOAT conversation, but I don't believe in KC's ability to assemble a perennial contender around him. At least no more than any other non-Pats team.

DaBruinz said:

Kelce is DONE in 2-3 years. He's 30 already.
Mathieu already got paid. He won't see another huge deal before he retires.
Hill just got his deal, but he'll be up in 2022.

2021 KC Free agents:
Watkins, Erving, Mahomes, Sorenson, Damien Williams, Colquitt, Reiter. (bold are the big names)

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Well without Kelce that offense will suffer easier to take Hull away when you don’t have to matchup with kelce

DaBruinz said:

Kelce is DONE in 2-3 years. He's 30 already.
Mathieu already got paid. He won't see another huge deal before he retires.
Hill just got his deal, but he'll be up in 2022.

2021 KC Free agents:
Watkins, Erving, Mahomes, Sorenson, Damien Williams, Colquitt, Reiter. (bold are the big names)

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Their window to win more championships is 3-5 years, maybe less, with this current core. That's not to say the Chiefs can't reload with younger talent through the draft though...

Kind of funny because the only reason KC won the SB is because they got to play two teams incapable of throwing the football.

You gotta win 2 before dynasty talk starts. Just look at what happened to Seattle. A lot of people said after 2012 they’d win it all in 2013. They did and then it was just a question of how many more would they win, then look what happened.

Marino never even got back.

Elijah said:

I think it's going to be like any other non Patriots team we've seen with a generational QB. All the same hyperbole about Mahomes (which is well-earned) was said about Rodgers 9 years ago, but he still only has the one ring. Same with Brees and Wilson. I'm pretty sure the only one of those 4 QBs who won while making a lot of money is Brees. You could pretty easily make the argument that the other 3 happened because the QB was so cheap, the team was able to load up their roster.

Things are going to be different when Mahomes makes $40M/year. I have all the respect in the world for him, and believe the potential is there to surpass even our guy in the GOAT conversation, but I don't believe in KC's ability to assemble a perennial contender around him. At least no more than any other non-Pats team.

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By year four of a $40m contract, that number begins to look like a bargain. (Especially considering a new CBA might jumpstart the cap.) The contract thing is a bit overrated. The Niners gave Garoppolo a bunch of money and didn't have any trouble putting together a top-flight team. The modern Packers, Seahawks, and Saints are plenty competitive, as were the Steelers when Roethlisberger was a top paid quarterback and even the Flacco Ravens competed as well despite Flacco being mediocre.

Aside from Mahomes, Wilson, and Jackson, almost all of the top-level QBs belong to an older generation that's heading into their twilight years. It's not comparable to Rodgers coming on the scene a decade ago, because there just isn't this existing superstar group (Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger) to compete with him. After Wilson, the big veteran QBs who will be around in a few years are a fading Rodgers, Ryan, and Watson. Good players but a far cry from that above group.

fightingirish595 said:

You gotta win 2 before dynasty talk starts. Just look at what happened to Seattle. A lot of people said after 2012 they’d win it all in 2013. They did and then it was just a question of how many more would they win, then look what happened.

Marino never even got back.

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It was so pathetic sitting at a restaurant and listening to Joe Buck argue that the Astros would be baseball's next dynasty if they won this past World Series (bringing their grand total to 2). Hellzzzz no. No one considered the Patriots a Dynasty before SB39, including Patriots fans. If anyone proclaimed they were a "dynasty" after winning ring #2 but before ring #3, that was immediately shot down and people would say "don't jinx them." Same with Cowboys of the early 90s. No one, not even Cowboys fans, could call them a Dynasty until they won their 3rd.

I get that it's harder to do now with the competition and free agency, hard caps, etc., but it seems like the bar for greatness just gets lower and lower.

There was a time no that long ago where even the GS Warriors "Dynasty" status would be questioned. 3 Championships in 5 appearances (and yes, I do think appearances are important for dynasties, too.) That is not such a slam dunk Dynasty when compared to the Kobe Lakers (5/7), Duncan Spurs (5/6), Jordan Bulls (6/6), Showtime Lakers (5/9). The 80s Celtics also won 3 in 5 appearances, though I think it's more impressive the more years it spans, provided its the same nucleus.

Then you have some weak sauce lite-Dynasties like the SF Giants and Chicago Blackhawks? Those teams weren't good for long enough for anyone to notice...as soon as people paid attention, many would argue they regressed to their mean and were more like the Eli Mannings of their sports, just getting hot at the right time.

My long-winded, rambling point is that many people in the sports world (I'm thinking of guys like Max Kellerman who are 13 years old) have never even witnessed a real dynasty before besides the villainous NE Patriots, so they are not going to just "get it" when they see it.

Arguing about the definition of dynasty in pro sports is probably the worst it can possibly get in terms of excruciatingly boring windmill tilting.

Winning one super bowl is no easy task, but it’s nothing compared to winning multiple super bowls. Check the history, these guys are about to find out. The Eagles talked alotta smack after 2017, haven’t really come close since.

primetime said:

Arguing about the definition of dynasty in pro sports is probably the worst it can possibly get in terms of excruciatingly boring windmill tilting.

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It sounds like you disagree.

Bring it on.

primetime said:

By year four of a $40m contract, that number begins to look like a bargain. (Especially considering a new CBA might jumpstart the cap.) The contract thing is a bit overrated. The Niners gave Garoppolo a bunch of money and didn't have any trouble putting together a top-flight team. The modern Packers, Seahawks, and Saints are plenty competitive, as were the Steelers when Roethlisberger was a top paid quarterback and even the Flacco Ravens competed as well despite Flacco being mediocre.

Aside from Mahomes, Wilson, and Jackson, almost all of the top-level QBs belong to an older generation that's heading into their twilight years. It's not comparable to Rodgers coming on the scene a decade ago, because there just isn't this existing superstar group (Brady, Brees, Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger) to compete with him. After Wilson, the big veteran QBs who will be around in a few years are a fading Rodgers, Ryan, and Watson. Good players but a far cry from that above group.

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As long as they have Mahomes & good coaching/fo, they'll be more than fine.

It's not like the team is made up of 1st Rd picks all over the place. And the ones that were are replaceable by in large except of course Mahomes. Hill, Hardman, Kelce, late Rd RB etc..

No reason to think that replicate this again. Or even improve if they get a lil lucky on D.

And like you said in 4-5 years Mahomes contract won't look bad at all. Every other position, even some QBs, its a 2-3 year league/contract.

Also for anyone thinking it's going to put them in cap hell lol. We're about to pony up 30m per for Brady in close to his mid 40's. Paying Mahomes 40 at 24, locking him up doesn't sound too bad at all right about now looking around the league.

fightingirish595 said:

You gotta win 2 before dynasty talk starts. Just look at what happened to Seattle. A lot of people said after 2012 they’d win it all in 2013. They did and then it was just a question of how many more would they win, then look what happened.

Marino never even got back.

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2 SBs is not a dynasty.
Nobody considers the Broncos a dynasty
You gotta win 3 of 4 or 3 of 5.
There are short and long term dynasties.
The 2 long term dynasties are the 80's Niners and the incredible 20 year run of the Patriots.
The short term dynasties are the 60's Packers, 70's Steelers, 80's Niners, early 90's Cowboys, 01-04 Patriots and 14-18 Patriots.
I don't make the rules. The above is what is generally accepted by all football pundits.
So KC had a looong way to go. They win 2 of the next 3 they can be added to the list.