E!SPN new Deflategate article

And if lower PSI was always better then why did the Colts set their balls to 13 for the game in question? Or Rodgers looking to be over 13.5? Everyone would use 12.5 if it was truly an advantage. So many obvious holes in logic that is still stuns all of us how it could have gained the traction that it did.

The whole scientific calculations were a total sham. You had a referee assign starting values based on nothing but his own memory. I would bet anything the guy didn't even measure each and every ball before the game. He probably selected a few at random, checked them out, they were ok, then moved on. But what happened was they assigned a starting value of 12.5 to all of NE's balls and 13.0 to all of Indy's.

Then you have a pair of ridiculously uncalibrated instruments used to determine the halftime measurements.

If any scientist ever ran an experiment with those sorts of controls, they'd be laughed out of the community.

The whole issue was supposedly Brady liked it a bit "mushy" so that he can GRIP the ball better.

It DOES NOT mean that the ball (underinflated) will fly optimally towards the intended destination.

Rodgers like a firmer ball probably because his hand is larger (yes size matters).

What bothers me awfully is that POST-deflate-gate, these "numbers" are supposed to be kept based on time/date, current temperature, altitude, humidity,etc....

Well, what are the results? We will never know.

sb1 said:

Agreed but he is a Patriot hater for sure. Called us cheaters again after the Bengals thing and was gloating that the Patriots lost. The whole “fumble” study started from the conclusion he wanted and working backwards.

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You're absolutely right that Sharp hates the Patriots. The basis for his analysis* when the deflategate farce began was that deflated footballs were harder to fumble, which explains New England's low fumble rate and we'll see their fumble numbers rise in the future once they play with footballs at the regulation PSI. Then the 2015 season happened and the Patriots fumble numbers didn't skyrocket as he predicted. This didn't give Sharp pause, as he doubled down and claimed that 2015 was abnormally warm and that's why we didn't see their fumbles increase. Of course, someone checked this and, surprise! Sharp was wrong about that, too. I'm baffled why anyone would go to this guy for gambling advice when he clearly let's his biases affect his work.



*If I remember correctly, there were problems with his original analysis, like he included fumbles on kick returns, where kicking balls would have been used which were handled solely by the officials, not the teams. I'm pretty sure he also included dome games, where the weather would have no effect.

TommyBrady12 said:

I've brought up the MIT report with non-patriots fans and they always say the same thing ...the professor was from MIT, a Boston institution. Recently, I just found out the guy is actually an Eagles fan...

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Hahaha...dismissing MIT because...Boston. I'm sure science works differently at MIT.

What was his excuse about Carnegie-Mellon, which is in...Pittsburgh?

ivanvamp said:

Hahaha...dismissing MIT because...Boston. I'm sure science works differently at MIT.

What was his excuse about Carnegie-Mellon, which is in...Pittsburgh?

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Some people are quick to dismiss anyone (scientists, former players, media members, etc) with ties to the New England area because they believe there's some bias there. Meanwhile, they completely ignore the background of the people accusing, investigating, and punishing the Patriots. Kensil was a former Jets executive and the son of a long time Jets executive. Goodell worked for the Jets. A lot of familiar names from NFL HQ, like Pash and Aiello, are Giants fans. Troy Vincent played for the Bills and lost a Super Bowl to New England as a member of the Eagles. Two of the three exponent guys were Giants fans. Even Ted Wells is a Jets fan. We're supposed to believe that these guys hold no grudges, show no favoritism and are playing it right down the middle, but anyone who even works in Boston is lying for the Patriots. Sure, that adds up

Everyone thinks this was about Brady, this was just a way to establish case law around the NFL being able to do whatever they want around player discipline. This is something they can use as huge leverage in upcoming negotiations. Brady just happened to get caught in the crossfire of these idiots.

blackglass3 said:

Here is the link if you want to give them the click. It basically boils down to "Houston was REALLY cheating, we're not sure if the Patriots did anything".

NOW you post this, 5 years later? Good God. It might change a mind or two, which is fine. But where was this critical thinking the week of and the weeks after this was all going down?

What really happened during Deflategate? Five years later, the NFL's 'scandal' aged poorly

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I'm not reading it, because if I do I might become generally aware of more likely than not something happening having to do w/the New England Patriots, and they could lose a half dozen draft picks.

XLIX said:

The whole scientific calculations were a total sham. You had a referee assign starting values based on nothing but his own memory. I would bet anything the guy didn't even measure each and every ball before the game. He probably selected a few at random, checked them out, they were ok, then moved on. But what happened was they assigned a starting value of 12.5 to all of NE's balls and 13.0 to all of Indy's.

Then you have a pair of ridiculously uncalibrated instruments used to determine the halftime measurements.

If any scientist ever ran an experiment with those sorts of controls, they'd be laughed out of the community.

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" What was the temperature of the locker room?". " Oh....about seventy something".

" Good enough".

Tony2046 said:

" What was the temperature of the locker room?". " Oh....about seventy something".

" Good enough".

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That hits on one of my pet peeves when people try to discount or discredit the effect of the IGL*. I've seen people say or post something like "It was 50 degrees that night. It wasn't even that cold." No one ever said the IGL only worked when it's below freezing. You take a football from one environment to another where there's a 20 degree temperature difference and it's going to make a difference in the PSI reading.

Also, on a tangent, Michael Hurley posted an article in response to the ESPN article. Nothing groundbreaking in there, but it just reinforces what a sham the whole thing was.


*This sounds really crazy to post about on a football message board, but the Patriots weren't the ones who decided to make an issue of it, so here we are.

All today does is prove to me more that the NFL is scripted. Now with the Pats in limbo, Brady might be leaving they admit they were wrong all along. Like clockwork.

Koma said:

Some people are quick to dismiss anyone (scientists, former players, media members, etc) with ties to the New England area because they believe there's some bias there. Meanwhile, they completely ignore the background of the people accusing, investigating, and punishing the Patriots. Kensil was a former Jets executive and the son of a long time Jets executive. Goodell worked for the Jets. A lot of familiar names from NFL HQ, like Pash and Aiello, are Giants fans. Troy Vincent played for the Bills and lost a Super Bowl to New England as a member of the Eagles. Two of the three exponent guys were Giants fans. Even Ted Wells is a Jets fan. We're supposed to believe that these guys hold no grudges, show no favoritism and are playing it right down the middle, but anyone who even works in Boston is lying for the Patriots. Sure, that adds up

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Goodell should have hired a law firm from a neutral city like Chicago or DC instead of Wells' firm. He's too stupid to realize that there could be some bias involved. All Wells needed was a little opening to nail Brady, and Brady gave it to him by destroying his phone.

We should just sue the NFL to get the 2 season's PSI numbers for every game....

TommyBrady12 said:

Goodell should have hired a law firm from a neutral city like Chicago or DC instead of Wells' firm. He's too stupid to realize that there could be some bias involved. All Wells needed was a little opening to nail Brady, and Brady gave it to him by destroying his phone.

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Yeah, except he was told that turning over his phone was voluntary and would was not required, after his attorney specifically asked that question, was told he could only turn over relevant details (there were none), and he didn’t “destroy” his phone, unless “destroying” your phone consists of dumping the sim card. Can’t imagine why a celebrity like Brady wouldn’t just leave old cell phones lying around. Everything Goodell said about Brady’s actions after the accusation is a proven bald-faces lie. The sack of **** even leaked to the press that Brady has demanded the appeal transcripts be sealed. Then when they were unsealed it was shown that Goodell, not Brady, was the one who wanted them sealed, and that his claims about Brady’s communication after the accusation were utter ******** and the opposite of what happened.

If Goodell had a terminal illness, I’d root for the illness and a slow, painful death.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Yeah, except he was told that turning over his phone was voluntary and would was not required, after his attorney specifically asked that question, was told he could only turn over relevant details (there were none), and he didn’t “destroy” his phone, unless “destroying” your phone consists of dumping the sim card. Can’t imagine why a celebrity like Brady wouldn’t just leave old cell phones lying around. Everything Goodell said about Brady’s actions after the accusation is a proven bald-faces lie. The sack of **** even leaked to the press that Brady has demanded the appeal transcripts be sealed. Then when they were unsealed it was shown that Goodell, not Brady, was the one who wanted them sealed, and that his claims about Brady’s communication after the accusation were utter ******** and the opposite of what happened.

If Goodell had a terminal illness, I’d root for the illness and a slow, painful death.

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Part of me thinks Brady didn't turn his phone over because the precedent set by Favre, but who knows...

I was listening to Gresh on CBS radio yesterday. He was talking about deflategate. Most of the callers were extremely ignorant. Then he got to Hugh from Seattle. It was Hugh Millen, former QB for several teams including the Patriots. He’s on the radio here in a Seattle where I live and he’s a really smart and analytical guy so I stayed in my car to listen to what he had to say.

He has no ties to the team, doesn’t know Tom Brady and his connection to Gresh is they both know Scott Zolak. Hugh was working for a company that made footballs at the time and talked a bit about the effects of different air pressures on throwing, catching and kicking. Because of that he was very interested in the Wells Report so downloaded it and read it cover to cover.

He basically proceeded to rip the NFL a new one for it. It was shoddy and dishonest. He talked about them disregarding the gauge Walt Anderson was reasonably sure he used. He talked about Brady complaining about throwing rocks when the ball turned out to be 16 psi. And the only thing Brady ever asked for was that the balls be set to 12.5 psi.

Hugh really seemed ticked off about it, but he was a caller, not a guest so he only had a couple of minutes. (I might ping Gresh and see if he’ll be a guest).

Most of you don’t get to hear Hugh Millen often, but he’s very informative. In fact, he was on often on the air after the Malcolm Butler interception in the Super Bowl and most local personalities blamed Darrell Bevelle for the play call. Hugh defended it because Seattle had only one timeout and the Patriots were in goal line defense and the issue was in the execution or the Patriots just made a good play.

patman12 said:

I have countered so many people’s misperceptions on this by asking them if the low tire pressure light ever goes on In their cars with a temperature drop. They all have said yes. It’s been easier than explaining the ideal gas law.

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Or have you ever played basketball in New England in the winter? Bring the ball outside and its got a good bounce to it, after about 10 minutes the ball doesn't bounce as well. Deflategate was a hit job! Period. And it went unchecked or mocked cuz it was punishing the Patriots who everyone hated.

Here's a couple of quotes from a recent trial where Ted Wells is lawyer for Exxon:

“The reputations of a lot of good people have been disparaged by the bringing of this complaint,” Wells said, according to Courtroom View Network’s webcast of the closing arguments.

“The theory of the case has not been supported by the evidence,” he said.

Looks like he learned a lot from the deflategate saga.

Here's the link to the case, if any cares to read it:NY Judge Hears Closings In $1B+ Exxon Climate Change Trial, State Drops Key Claims

After all, Wells is now an "expert" on climate change.

If Kraft had any balls, he would have sued the NFL and the discovery alone would have proved both the Patriots and Brady’s innocence. Instead he
Bent over and took it like a pledge for Delta Tau.

Imagine asking for Harbaugh cell records? Or Goodell’s , Kraft should have made the case about the facts, instead he left Brady hanging and Brady was left with the CBA and not the facts of the case.

So when Brady leaves and you ask yourself “Why” (in your best Nancy Kerrigan impression); its Kraft and how he rolled over on his “son” Brady.

FreeTedWilliams said:

If Kraft had any balls, he would have sued the NFL and the discovery alone would have proved both the Patriots and Brady’s innocence. Instead he
Bent over and took it like a pledge for Delta Tau.

Imagine asking for Harbaugh cell records? Or Goodell’s , Kraft should have made the case about the facts, instead he left Brady hanging and Brady was left with the CBA and not the facts of the case.

So when Brady leaves and you ask yourself “Why” (in your best Nancy Kerrigan impression); its Kraft and how he rolled over on his “son” Brady.

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Kraft’s shocking cowardice during Deflategate is the reason 99% Of the time for hate from forum members. All the other stuff like Orchids Spa and even to some degree the AB move would have a mere fraction of the hostility and second guessing of it weren’t the coward hugging it out with Roger and his 31 speech. I’ll never look at him the same way again, and yes, I’m aware that he didn’t have much recourse. It’s how he acted so much more than what he wasn’t able to accomplish.