E!SPN new Deflategate article

mosi · Jan 18, 2020

Deflategate was a great example of how absolutely stupid we have become and how people will believe anything if it fits their narrative. When something as fundamental as the gas law can be ignored, anything can.

SammyBlueCat · Jan 18, 2020

Jealousy is a cruel as the grave

QuantumMechanic · Jan 18, 2020

RelocatedPatFan said:
Don’t forget the deflation wasn't natural. Proven by the very same organization that proved second hand smoke and asbestos doesn’t cause cancer.

EDIT: Yeah - was should have been waasn't

The thing was, Exponent’s experiments and analysis proved that no deflation happened. Exponent’s conclusion was that the balls were at most 0.3PSI too low.

But...
1) that’s based on the pregame measurements by the refs. But those were done using cheapo uncalibrated gauges that easily have 0.3PSI error ranges.
2) even though Anderson identified the gauge he used as the one with the bent needle, exponent used the other one. And those gauges read 0.3PSI different from each other.

So Exponent actually exonerated NE. But they of course couldn’t admit that since the NFL was paying them, and of course Wells couldn’t admit it either.

Finally, I want Wells or some hater to explain to me how NE managed to precisely remove 0.3PSI. And why Brady hatched this scheme to remove an imperceptible 0.3PSI.

sb1 · Jan 18, 2020

But BrAdY sMASheD hIs PhoNe

Koma · Jan 18, 2020

It's pretty remarkable that an article like this was published by ESPN. In September of 2015, Mike Reiss wrote a reaction article to the Anonymous Source Brothers hit piece on the Patriots. In it, Reiss raised a point questioning one of the assertions of cheating in New England. ESPN removed that material from his article, claiming it needed a "tighter edit." We've gone from not being allowed to question any negative claims about the Patriots, no matter how absurd, to casting doubt on if a high profile "scandal" even happened.

In terms of motivation, I can't imagine ESPN management had a change of heart on the topic. If I had to guess, they see that Brady's career will end in the next few years and they want to show him the company isn't an enemy in case he's interested in TV work. Along those lines, maybe they've seen the reactions to Belichick on the NFL100 shows and want to present a friendlier, or more balanced face, in order to court him, as well.

Betterthanmost · Jan 18, 2020

I always find it strange when one lumps ESPN as a single entity vice the actions of a certain specific people. You will be surprised to know that things are not as tightly controlled as you may think.

cmasspatsfan · Jan 18, 2020

Koma said:
It's pretty remarkable that an article like this was published by ESPN. In September of 2015, Mike Reiss wrote a reaction article to the Anonymous Source Brothers hit piece on the Patriots. In it, Reiss raised a point questioning one of the assertions of cheating in New England. ESPN removed that material from his article, claiming it needed a "tighter edit." We've gone from not being allowed to question any negative claims about the Patriots, no matter how absurd, to casting doubt on if a high profile "scandal" even happened.

In terms of motivation, I can't imagine ESPN management had a change of heart on the topic. If I had to guess, they see that Brady's career will end in the next few years and they want to show him the company isn't an enemy in case he's interested in TV work. Along those lines, maybe they've seen the reactions to Belichick on the NFL100 shows and want to present a friendlier, or more balanced face, in order to court him, as well.

It was a curious article, Im not sure what the motivation for it was, you make a good point though.

Joker · Jan 19, 2020

sb1 said:
I still think the Patriots should have done a public demonstration at halftime of a game on a cold day- take measurements at the start, half and end of game of footballs and show the results on the scoreboard for all to see.

Maybe Kraft didn’t want to embarrass his good buddy Roger.

we DID that in the parking lot right outside the gate...twice that I recall.

Doctor DDS · Jan 19, 2020

The fact that the Patriots offense went from a good to incredible offense post spygate should have raised serious questions to a fair media and called into question what the alleged offense but it did not become a talking point like the "impossible" fumble numbers did after deflategate. Over the past 20 or so years the media has seemingly moved closer to the National Enquirer where headlines to move the needle are much more important than truth. We see it with our local sports talk as well where it is clear that truth is not nearly as interesting as fake scandal as evidenced by the rating differences between channels.

sb1 · Jan 19, 2020

Yeah nobody is talking about those fumble stats from Sharp anymore since it was debunked the following year. Sharp is also a die hard Patriot hater so consider the source too on that one.

ivanvamp · Jan 19, 2020

TB_Helmet said:
Sentences like this make me confused. It’s like it’s this great mystery if the balls are under inflated. Why doesn’t a reporter just measure the PSI of a football he brings with him to a cold weather game?

It’s obviously years late, but at the time everyone was yelling at each other about whether the IGL could explain the Patriots PSI levels and nobody did an actual ****ing experiment except for the NFL (who never released the results the next year) and a handful of eighth graders who won their science fairs when they showed that the PSI levels were right where they should have been.

People at Carnegie-Mellon and MIT did do experiments. Showed exactly what you'd expect. But...nobody listened. I mean....these are two of the finest science institutions in the world.

And yes your point is well taken. A reporter should buy a standard NFL ball, pump it to 12.5, bring it to a cold game - say, a 20-degree game in Lambeau in December - and let it sit on the ground for the first two quarters. Then measure the psi. It is a 100% guarantee that, unless it's sitting by a heater or whatever, it will lose air pressure. Laws of physics and all.

Why no reporter did this is just beyond my capacity to understand. Or...they DID, and didn't want to share the results.

ivanvamp · Jan 19, 2020

This is a good time to point people back to this:

A Thorough Look at DeflateGate - How Did We Get To This Point?

ivanvamp · Jan 19, 2020

Deus Irae said:
The damage is done. Think of how many political comments get wrongly reported and "corrected". They're never gone, and they continue to get used by those in opposition.

This is no different. Between those who are ignorant of the facts, and those who allow agenda to overcome truth, this will continue to be out there. Hell, we've still got people repeating the claim that the Patriots taped a Rams walk through ahead of the 2001 Super Bowl.

Yep. And here's the thing too. Consider the latest taping "scandal" (the Pats and Bengals). Part of the reason people don't give the Pats the benefit of the doubt is...Deflategate. Part of the reason the Pats may get punished more for that silly thing is because Deflategate is "on the record" as being a time when the Patriots were "officially" caught "cheating".

It would be like if you got a totally bogus arrest for something that you CLEARLY didn't do, but the justice system screwed you...then if something else came up, you'd be treated as a multiple time offender, and the punishment would be much more harsh, even though the first "conviction" was completely bogus. So yeah, it's still having an impact NOW.

Tottie · Jan 19, 2020

sb1 said:
Yeah nobody is talking about those fumble stats from Sharp anymore since it was debunked the following year. Sharp is also a die hard Patriot hater so consider the source too on that one.

I wonder if he really is. It seems to me producers of these types of debate shows always have one guy play to the crowd and **** on the Patriots

Patsfanin Philly · Jan 19, 2020

ivanvamp said:
People at Carnegie-Mellon and MIT did do experiments. Showed exactly what you'd expect. But...nobody listened. I mean....these are two of the finest science institutions in the world.

And yes your point is well taken. A reporter should buy a standard NFL ball, pump it to 12.5, bring it to a cold game - say, a 20-degree game in Lambeau in December - and let it sit on the ground for the first two quarters. Then measure the psi. It is a 100% guarantee that, unless it's sitting by a heater or whatever, it will lose air pressure. Laws of physics and all.

Why no reporter did this is just beyond my capacity to understand. Or...they DID, and didn't want to share the results.

The Minnesota -Seattle playoff game in zero degree weather was the perfect game to check the results but the NFL didn't reveal the results..Wonder why??? Sometimes it takes time for the hype and hysteria to die down and things to get looked at in perspective.. This is one of those and three Super Bowls and 2 Lombardis later, anyone with a few functioning neurons knows that deflating balls .3 lbs wasn't the reason for their success.

sb1 · Jan 19, 2020

Tottie said:
I wonder if he really is. It seems to me producers of these types of debate shows always have one guy play to the crowd and **** on the Patriots

Agreed but he is a Patriot hater for sure. Called us cheaters again after the Bengals thing and was gloating that the Patriots lost. The whole “fumble” study started from the conclusion he wanted and working backwards.

Ring 6 · Jan 19, 2020

TB_Helmet said:
Sentences like this make me confused. It’s like it’s this great mystery if the balls are under inflated. Why doesn’t a reporter just measure the PSI of a football he brings with him to a cold weather game?

It’s obviously years late, but at the time everyone was yelling at each other about whether the IGL could explain the Patriots PSI levels and nobody did an actual ****ing experiment except for the NFL (who never released the results the next year) and a handful of eighth graders who won their science fairs when they showed that the PSI levels were right where they should have been.

It’s not that cold COULD have caused deflation it’s that cold HAS TO cause inflation. Like every time. Like it’s a RULE OF NATURE that pressures decreases when temperature decreases. It’s not a theory that must be tested, it’s a cold hard fact.

TB_Helmet · Jan 19, 2020

Ring 6 said:
It’s not that cold COULD have caused deflation it’s that cold HAS TO cause inflation. Like every time. Like it’s a RULE OF NATURE that pressures decreases when temperature decreases. It’s not a theory that must be tested, it’s a cold hard fact.

Yeah, no ****. And yet, we still get quotes like in this article where the reporter says “maybe the cold could have deflated those footballs, I guess we’ll never know!” But none of them ever tested it for himself and wrote about the results. That’s all I’m saying.

It speaks to a lack of complete scientific illiteracy in this country both that people don’t know about the IGL and also that nobody took the initiative to see what happens for themselves by throwing a football in a fridge for 20 minutes, and that illiteracy carries over to other aspects of our society too and causes a lot of real harm.

If it makes you feel better to call it a “demonstration” of a law instead of an “experiment” then be my guest (FYI, it’s perfectly valid to conduct experiments to test hypotheses that conform to laws of nature).

The Brandon Five · Jan 19, 2020

If underinflated balls provide such a huge advantage can anyone explain why passer ratings are universally higher in warm and cozy domes?

SHOWTIME15 · Jan 19, 2020

ivanvamp said:
People at Carnegie-Mellon and MIT did do experiments. Showed exactly what you'd expect. But...nobody listened. I mean....these are two of the finest science institutions in the world.

And yes your point is well taken. A reporter should buy a standard NFL ball, pump it to 12.5, bring it to a cold game - say, a 20-degree game in Lambeau in December - and let it sit on the ground for the first two quarters. Then measure the psi. It is a 100% guarantee that, unless it's sitting by a heater or whatever, it will lose air pressure. Laws of physics and all.

Why no reporter did this is just beyond my capacity to understand. Or...they DID, and didn't want to share the results.

I've brought up the MIT report with non-patriots fans and they always say the same thing ...the professor was from MIT, a Boston institution.

Recently, I just found out the guy is actually an Eagles fan...

E!SPN new Deflategate article

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