OT: Sox Fire Cora

Patriot Missile said:

Really? Did you see their road record? Its better than home. I think this is way overblown as far as the severity.

I saw what The Cardinals did as far worse.

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The Cardinals committed a federal crime

Tunescribe said:

What could be worse in baseball than a batter secretly knowing exactly what pitch is coming?

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Probably a fan that watches a full 9 inning game. Baseball is dead. Their road record was one of the tops in the league, the home team didnt win a game in the world series, there were other teams like the yankees that had similar home record during the regular season. Just don’t see it as that big of advantage and I’d be willing to bet the Houston offense will perform just as well next year without cheating.

Patriot Missile said:

Really? Did you see their road record? Its better than home. I think this is way overblown as far as the severity.

I saw what The Cardinals did as far worse.

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the home record in 2018 was 57-24. 6 games better than their away record

vuudu said:

They did not fire Cora, it was a mutual decision to part ways. Do you know if Cora did not just resign?

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Bankofamericasox: "OK, we can fire you, you can resign, or we can put lipstick on it announcing a 'mutual decision' to part ways."
Cora: "I'll take the lipstick."

Shameful, overreaction. Sign stealing didn't even help. Another ridiculous penalty. How about fining the Yankees for PED's in the 90s?

Tunescribe said:

But do you know the details of the technological lengths Cora went to? It's pretty outrageous, he took sign stealing to a whole new level.

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We don't know that. We know what the league wants us to believe.

Right now I feel like Alex is the scapegoat. If they wanted to get rid of something that has plagued the league for years they could have modernized the league but instead they looked for a sacrificial lamb.

I'm sure Alex wasn't a Mastermind of something that has been going on for long before he was relevant.

Tunes is an avowed Boreball hater...

Tony2046 said:

We don't know that. We know what the league wants us to believe.

Right now I feel like Alex is the scapegoat. If they wanted to get rid of something that has plagued the league for years they could have modernized the league but instead they looked for a sacrificial lamb.

I'm sure Alex wasn't a Mastermind of something that has been going on for long before he was relevant.

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I agree - seems too pat. Especially for the Astros cause he is no longer there. Funny thing - Astros loved accusing others of cheating. Manager and GM look weasly as hell.

Tony2046 said:

We don't know that. We know what the league wants us to believe.

Right now I feel like Alex is the scapegoat. If they wanted to get rid of something that has plagued the league for years they could have modernized the league but instead they looked for a sacrificial lamb.

I'm sure Alex wasn't a Mastermind of something that has been going on for long before he was relevant.

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OK. Cora set up an ingenious video-based sign-stealing monitoring system incorporating dugout signaling to batters in Houston and enacted a variation of it in Boston. But he's just one of many doing it and is being scapegoated by those lying bastards running MLB. Someone needs to blow the lid off this thing and make Cora commissioner. It's the only solution.

Tunescribe said:

OK. Cora set up an ingenious video-based sign-stealing monitoring system incorporating dugout signaling to batters in Houston and enacted a variation of it in Boston. But he's just one of many doing it and is being scapegoated by those lying bastards running MLB. Someone needs to blow the lid off this thing and make Cora commissioner. It's the only solution.

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Sure and we can pretend "illegal" signal stealing never happened before or ever.

We can also pretend the steroid era didn't exist until it did.

And we can also pretend that no one uses " illegal" pine tar.

The league is using Alex as the scapegoat. Plain and simple.

Tony2046 said:

Sure and we can pretend "illegal" signal stealing never happened before or ever.

We can also pretend the steroid era didn't exist until it did.

And we can also pretend that no one uses " illegal" pine tar.

The league is using Alex as the scapegoat. Plain and simple.

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Corked bats, juiced balls, Black Sox, Pete Rose ... At this point why should anyone give a rat's ass about MLB's phony boring charades? I sure don't, which makes me a hypocrite for posting in this stupid thread.

denverpatsfan said:

Shameful, overreaction. Sign stealing didn't even help. Another ridiculous penalty. How about fining the Yankees for PED's in the 90s?

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what a stupid post. Sign stealing didn’t help? Pal the whole investigation is for 2017 and 2018. Last I checked Cora was on both World Series teams from those seasons running a sign stealing ring for the former and possibly the later.

And wow! The Yankees had 1 or 2 guys on their team that used PEDs in the 90s, just like every other team in baseball did. Remember the Red Sox won 2 World Series with known cheater manny Ramirez. Big papi isn’t exactly exonerated or anything either

Kdo5 said:

Honestly I haven't paid too much attention to all of this until now. Is this form of cheating really that significant to the general outcome?

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They used a camera, video monitor and a runner or trashcan banging to do what would have been legal to do with binoculars and hand signals -- steal signs in real time.

When it comes down to it, the smackdown is for not respecting Manfred's authoriteh, not for affecting games.

QuantumMechanic said:

They used a camera, video monitor and a runner or trashcan banging to do what would have been legal to do with binoculars and hand signals -- steal signs in real time.

When it comes down to it, the smackdown is for not respecting Manfred's authoriteh, not for affecting games.

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Okay interesting. Because the way some people are posting they are acting like the Astros and Sox should have their World Series titles stripped from them. As someone who has watched their team go through alleged cheating scandals, I am inclined to wonder if a mountain is being made out of a molehill and that this kind of **** is not limited to two teams.

Actual Pats Fan said:

Those Astros guys were only "banned" (give me a break) for one year.

One year is nothing. Big deal.

Durocher the Spymaster: How much did the Giants prosper from cheating in 1951? | Society for American Baseball Research

Not surprised by Henry. I remember being astonished the Sox let Orlando Cabrera go after he played sensationally in 2004, stabilized his position and the team leading them to that historic World Series.

It was much later revealed that the reason had nothing whatever to do with baseball. So the guy wasn't a saint; but I see no arrest record ever of the guy.

This is the worst I can find, one season in Chicago:

It was a bad year for Cabrera's image

I would have been perfectly all right with Cora serving a "ban" (suspension) and coming back here. I, for one, am grateful for his efforts.

I've seen pine tar, Billy Martin, steroids, and more, not to mention stickum in the NFL.

Lance Armstrong is a cheater. Alex Cora? Sounds more like a scapegoat.

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Yeah...I tend to put the burden of the “cheating” problem on the league that doesn’t tighten the rules enough or use technology enough to prevent it. Like in this case, MLB could have easily hired their own representative to be in a dugout or centerfield, knowing these accusations. Or pitcher and catcher could easily use some other type of better communication technology to prevent this.

If there are signs to steal, teams will try to steal them. The teams that are the smartest and most successful will get punished and scapegoated. Teams that suck or aren’t as good at gamesmanship will skate by.

I agree...there are really only two types of actual cheaters in sports:

1. Juicers...guys that use masking agents and purposely circumvent drug tests. That is just another level of “getting an edge” and is an uneven playing field. Lance Armstrong is a good example with the lengths he went to hide the doping.

2. Guys who LOSE on purpose for gambling, getting paid off, etc. They should get a lifetime ban.

Everyone else is just trying to gain access to valuable information or trying to get an edge in winning a game. As they push/break rules, the league should respond by adjusting its protocols rather than crying and punishing. We know that in a competitive world like this, you really are likely at a disadvantage if you’re not trying to gain every possible edge. Holding, offsides, pass interference...these are also “against the rules” and have penalties. All rules violations have penalties. Teams and individuals take risks when they break rules. But again, they are trying to win, not throwing games or point shaving. I don’t know if I’d use the word “cheating.” Maybe I’m in the minority...I just think at that level you should expect that everyone will do anything to win and prepare to combat it. It’s part of the game.

Tunescribe said:

What could be worse in baseball than a batter secretly knowing exactly what pitch is coming?

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Yes, you are correct, but again the leadership was aware of these accusations which were not a huge secret. They could have easily put in protocols to prevent it. They could have had an MLB rep in the dugout or at the centerfield camera room. That’s just being dumb and allowing things to happen, like the dumb NFL in 2007 whining about where teams could film from despite having the wireless communications that would eliminate hand signals to begin with. If you’re sending out memos asking teams to please not take advantage of a giant loophole in an effort to win, then perhaps you should just close the loophole.

Tunescribe said:

I would consider being a baseball fan again if Houston and the Bankofamericasox were forced to forfeit their recent World Series titles because of this incredibly blatant cheating, which no doubt contributed heavily to their seasons' success. It makes no sense to sanction the teams and individuals involved but let the championships stand. MLB just can't be taken seriously.

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lol dude you're a joke with this comment

but if you aren't, riddle me this: did the sox STOP using the signals for this past season?

because then i need a reason why the signals contributed to a WS title season, but not to a sucky season





ANSWER for all the idiotic comments in this thread: just like spygate, deflategate, etc, this signal stealing barely mattered in actual wins/losses

Prepare for the onslaught of media comparison of which is greater, "SpyGate" or "Sign Stealing Gate"... this will heat up the local airwaves for much of the spring until the Draft... then there will be the circle jerks by the national media over all of this..

I like Cora, but his actions here are incredibly stupid...

Froob said:

? I thought people liked him?

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No. Bring back Francona and Millar. Cowboy up!

Kdo5 said:

Honestly I haven't paid too much attention to all of this until now. Is this form of cheating really that significant to the general outcome?

We all know the supposed cheating scandals the Pats had were silly because even if deflategate happened it didn't have a real impact.

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Knowing what pitch is coming is HUGE.

As for the bold part, that's the end result of the NYFL lying to fans about what actually happened.