Astros Hinch and GM Suspended 1 year - Cora Next?

TB_Helmet said:

This is insane. 30 years of following baseball and I've never seen anything close to this, let alone on the team I root for (assuming Cora gets suspended / fired as well)

Click to expand...

Imagine what we don't know

In other words that last part says they cheated to win their title. This is as close to an “official” championship asterisk from the league as it gets. Wow.

Tough couple of days for Houston fans...

Cora is going to get killed. We all know it's coming. The question is do the Sox fire him.

robertweathers said:

Cora is going to get killed. We all know it's coming. The question is do the Sox fire him.

Click to expand...

They have to fire him ... Cora always preached about being accountable and transparent.

IcyPatriot said:

They have to fire him ... Cora always preached about being accountable and transparent.

Click to expand...

As I see it, the only thing is if the MLB determines it'll just be the HOU activity and not the Red Sox stuff he is suspended over. I think the scope is just the HOU sign stealing and not anything the team might have done in 2018.

Cora will not get a life-time ban. Stealing signs will continue, but without today's gadgets (iPhones). This is a game where a pitcher throws at a batter (usually hits) because a previous batter hit a home run.........Comparing Shoe-less Jackson's life time ban of throwing a WS on bets to Cora stealing signs in a WS is not comparable. I was surprised the Astros fired the manager. Probably received heat from the commissioner's office (they did not take on that responsibility).

For your guys sake I hope MLB doesn't find the 2018 Red sox cheated. People are going to call the whole city a bunch of cheaters

TommyBrady12 said:

For your guys sake I hope MLB doesn't find the 2018 Red sox cheated. People are going to call the whole city a bunch of cheaters

Click to expand...

Surprised they don't bring up all the Red Auerbach tricks in the old garden.
He was brutal ........

TommyBrady12 said:

For your guys sake I hope MLB doesn't find the 2018 Red sox cheated. People are going to call the whole city a bunch of cheaters

Click to expand...

I don’t think most people will care all that much. This is something other teams have done. Not compared to the Astros anyway which was way more egregious and I doubt anyone had a system like that.

TommyBrady12 said:

For your guys sake I hope MLB doesn't find the 2018 Red sox cheated. People are going to call the whole city a bunch of cheaters

Click to expand...

yes we all care so much what some hypocrite fans think lol. troll.

TommyBrady12 said:

Click to expand...

Yup. Cora is gone. Brutal for the Sox but I said the Astros needed the hammer dropped. It didn’t drop hard enough in my opinion. Player suspensions were needed as well. The Sox are in the same boat.

robertweathers said:

Cora is going to get killed. We all know it's coming. The question is do the Sox fire him.

Click to expand...

They have to. They have no choice in the matter.

ViperGTS said:

Player suspensions were needed as well. The Sox are in the same boat.

Click to expand...

Most likely not to upset the players union, especially with CBA negotiations around the corner. The difference in the Astros home and away records is quite staggering. Now we know why.

ViperGTS said:

They have to. They have no choice in the matter.

Click to expand...

Yes only after if the MLB determines they cheated during the 2018 season.

Which assumingly they did

TommyBrady12 said:

For your guys sake I hope MLB doesn't find the 2018 Red sox cheated. People are going to call the whole city a bunch of cheaters

Click to expand...

Living outside Boston, they already do. I've heard all sorts of snarky comments in the last day or so....

scout said:

Cora will not get a life-time ban. Stealing signs will continue, but without today's gadgets (iPhones). This is a game where a pitcher throws at a batter (usually hits) because a previous batter hit a home run.........Comparing Shoe-less Jackson's life time ban of throwing a WS on bets to Cora stealing signs in a WS is not comparable. I was surprised the Astros fired the manager. Probably received heat from the commissioner's office (they did not take on that responsibility).

Click to expand...

Kind of like with the Patriots situation, there is some nuance here. If you read Manfred’s 9 page ruling, he explicitly notes that there is nothing wrong with sign stealing - it’s just that it cannot done with electronic devices in any way. Of course sign stealing will continue by those who think it’s helpful; it will just be done the old fashioned way.

sb1 said:

LOL @ "it was more distracting to hitters". Cmon the league really bought that? They were told what pitch is coming and they knew it was cheating.

Click to expand...

You’d be surprised. I read a book in the late 1980s called “Baseball Confidential” where they anonymously surveyed MLB players about certain questions. Baseball Confidential

This was far before any significant electronic equipment could be used for this purpose. One of the questions was about sign stealing being done the old fashioned way. And back then, in 1987, when it was all done legally, the opinions on players were split - precisely for the reasons noted this time around. The people who said it hurt them instead of helping noted that what matters to them the most is the location of the pitch, not the type of pitch, and you can’t get that from sign stealing — eye level was their first and foremost thing that helped. So I wasn’t surprised to read that excuse.

Not every player likes the same thing. As Tom Brady likes softer footballs, Aaron Rodgers wants them as filled with air as possible.

sb1 said:

View attachment 25870

In other words that last part says they cheated to win their title. This is as close to an “official” championship asterisk from the league as it gets. Wow.

Click to expand...

You’re acting a little like Patriot haters. He didn’t say they cheated to win their title; he said they cheated while winning their title. There’s a difference. He specifically says he doesn’t know the impact because it’s impossible to know - including the fact that some players found it distracting (harmful) and wound up opting out as time went on. The Astros didn’t cheat in 2019 and made it all the way to Game 7 of the World Series, so to say that cheating caused them to win the title takes away from the fact that pure talent and work got them to the brink. Very possible with all the talent on the 2017 team they would have won it all anyway.

Not trying to excuse the Astros for violating the rules, but just trying to put it into proper context. Following BB’s Spygate response, on a scale from 1-100 I expect this helped the Astros somewhere around a 1.

Hammer of Thor said:

You’re acting a little like Patriot haters. He didn’t say they cheated to win their title; he said they cheated while winning their title. There’s a difference. He specifically says he doesn’t know the impact because it’s impossible to know - including the fact that some players found it distracting (harmful) and wound up opting out as time went on. The Astros didn’t cheat in 2019 and made it all the way to Game 7 of the World Series, so to say that cheating caused them to win the title takes away from the fact that pure talent and work got them to the brink. Very possible with all the talent on the 2017 team they would have won it all anyway.

Not trying to excuse the Astros for violating the rules, but just trying to put it into proper context. Following BB’s Spygate response, on a scale from 1-100 I expect this helped the Astros somewhere around a 1.

Click to expand...

He said the scheme was used in the postseason. I don’t think it’s that big of a jump from cheating “while” winning their title to “cheating to win their title”.

The “they would have won anyway on talent” thought isn’t really a defense of cheating. Bonds was a great player and would have had a solid HOF career even if he didn’t get “help” along the way.

The only credible defense of Spygate was Bill saying he thought he could tape by rule- he had admitted since that he should have checked with the league first and he is correct. It wasn’t done to cheat it was a blunder by Bill. Also Roger concluded “No advantage gained”. That’s not quite what Manfred said.

In this case it’s clear to me that if you know what pitch is coming you have an advantage - even if it’s just one or two batters out of 9- and since the scheme was used in the postseason its enough in my book to question the legitimacy of their title.