Report: Browns Hire Vikings OC Kevin Stefanski

farn said:

Wowwwwwwww. Reports coach needs to show game plan to owner & geeks every Friday. Hahaha. Dodged a bullet.

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hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

analytics over championships?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Rob0729 said:

When I heard they were looking for a head coach who would buy into Paul DePodesta’s sabermetrics personnel strategy, I knew Josh was unlikely to get the job.

Sabermetrics has never actually worked that well in MLB were statistics actually have far more meaning than the NFL. There is far more in football that is not quantifiable by stats than baseball.

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Yes. Baseball is the most individualistic of all team sports. Most of what a player does is separable from the actions of his teammates. Not so football.

I doubt that any coach is ever going to be blackballed, which by definition requires forethought and coordination.

However, Josh created a serious issue of trust with his prior behavior. If I'm one of the oligarchs that owns and NFL team, and it is one of my favorite investments and forms of entertainment, there's no reason for me to add to my life the discomfort of wondering if my coach is being forthcoming with me and the rest of management. It may or may not be justified based on what Josh actually did or didn't do, but that doesn't really matter.

Steve Doerschuk: Josh McDaniels wouldn’t back down; Browns owner backed away


Josh McDaniels agreed with the Browns. It wasn’t a great fit. Steve Doerschuk dives inside the interviews leading to the Browns hiring Kevin Stefanski.

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Steve Doerschuk: Josh McDaniels wouldn't back down; Browns owner backed away

So, according to that link, general reports, and the Tweet from Dustin Fox noted above, Stefanski got the job because he was Depodesta's choice last year, got along well with the room, and agreed to be shackled by both the idiots pimping analytics and the idiots who owned the team. He's going to have to show them his homework every week, before his parents will let him turn it in.

No wonder things didn't work out with McDaniels, and Haslam seems determined not to learn a damned thing during his tenure as owner.

Stefanski's been neutered before he's even had his press conference.

NormZauchin said:

Yes. Baseball is the most individualistic of all team sports. Most of what a player does is separable from the actions of his teammates. Not so football.

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User name checks out.

Deus Irae said:

...and Haslam seems determined not to learn a damned thing during his tenure as owner.

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Sad, but not surprising. Seems to correlate with wealth.

farn said:

Wowwwwwwww. Reports coach needs to show game plan to owner & geeks every Friday. Hahaha. Dodged a bullet.

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Haslam is implementing AI in the front office, since normal human intelligence has failed.

Ross12 said:

Have seen some good things out of Steve Belichick though. Needs lots more time of course but wouldn't be shocked if the Kraft family wanted to continue doing things the Belichick way, especially if Bill wanted to step backward into a Caserio-like role at that time. They could always decide to go in another direction, of course, but the last 20 years have given plenty of reasons to stay the course if it the option presents itself.

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I’m not a fan of nepotism. It’s inevitably in a family owned business, but it should be avoided everywhere else. Especially in football which is the ultimate meritocracy.

It’s poison to an organization creating hard feelings amongst employees who even if it’s not the case see the relative/friend as receiving preferable treatment. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that you saw a full scale exodus of defensive staff last year and then Greg Schiano’s quick departure. Would not be surprised if there are not more departures this off season.

Actually, if Bill wants what’s best for Stephen Belichick coaching career, he’d make sure his son got out of his shadow and made a name for himself on his own with another staff.

I assume this headline is fake news as I heard from about 50% of this board that McDaniels leaving was a "done deal."

TomPatriot said:

You can quantify just as much in football. It’s just harder. And quantitative analysis in football is useful, but it isn’t everything.

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Maybe for analyzing game situations and a team’s tendency, but it is not a way to quantify an individual player’s talent. For example, when you are looking at a running back’s stats, those stats cannot tell you whether the guard opened a hole for him or the FB blocking for him hit the right hole or a WR who was supposed to block whiffed his assignment. Stats in football won’t tell you if a QB throws an incompletion whether the QB threw a bad ball or the receiver ran a bad route or a lineman let his assignment get in the throwing lane to force the QB to throw a bad ball.

I think it's too soon to think about Steve Belichick as our future HC. What's probably going to happen is that once BB retires, if Josh is still with the organization, he will get first shot at HC. Hopefully, Steve will be DC (or even possibly OC) for Josh to gain experience first. If Josh fails at HC again, then we can move Steve into HC. Jerod Mayo is another candidate along with Steve.

So with McDaniels watch seemingly over...is anybody leaving this offseason other than Judge?

There was talking that Judge could hire Bielema as his DC, but that didn’t happen. There’s no obvious candidate on the Pats’ staff to be an OC anywhere either. Any departure would have to be some kind of lateral move, it seems, either approved for some reason or an expiring contract. Giants reporters mentioned Pellegrino as a candidate for the same job there since he’s from NYC and obviously knows Judge, but that seems unlikely to me.

It looks like we may be in the clear other than potential Scar/Fears retirements. And of course there are still openings for the WR and ST jobs.

Does Troy brown become our full time wide receiver coach?

based on the job mayo did this year, I think Troy deserves a shot.

any chance we steal brad seely from the Texans as our special teams coach next year?

Rob0729 said:

Maybe for analyzing game situations and a team’s tendency, but it is not a way to quantify an individual player’s talent. For example, when you are looking at a running back’s stats, those stats cannot tell you whether the guard opened a hole for him or the FB blocking for him hit the right hole or a WR who was supposed to block whiffed his assignment. Stats in football won’t tell you if a QB throws an incompletion whether the QB threw a bad ball or the receiver ran a bad route or a lineman let his assignment get in the throwing lane to force the QB to throw a bad ball.

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Not true. Stats can tell you all those things. You’re certainly right that it’s harder than it is in baseball. They’re just a lot more work to create because it’s much more labor intensive than in baseball. You need to look at every play and you need to know what you’re looking for. So it’s hard but it can be done. And I think it actually is done.

OTOH, sabermatricians used to make fun of Brian Sabean, Giants GM, because he was old school and “didn’t really use sabermetrics,” which was not quite true. That mockery ended when the Giants won 3 WS in five years. Even Bill James, The Godfather of sabermatricians, would tell you stats are useful but they’re not everything.

Too bad for Josh as returning "home" may have been the job he really wanted.. if he turned that franchise around they would have enshrined him forever.

Baker Mayfield will probably flounder in that system.. not sure Stefanik has the chops and experience to make that huge a difference with is necessary.

Getting the owner and analytics to approve the weekly game plan on Friday is beyond idiotic.. particularly as they have worked on that game plan since Wednesday... probably a good thing for Josh.

DarrylS said:

Too bad for Josh as returning "home" may have been the job he really wanted.. if he turned that franchise around they would have enshrined him forever.

Baker Mayfield will probably flounder in that system.. not sure Stefanik has the chops and experience to make that huge a difference with is necessary.

Getting the owner and analytics to approve the weekly game plan on Friday is beyond idiotic.. particularly as they have worked on that game plan since Wednesday... probably a good thing for Josh.

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Josh dodged a bullet.

robertweathers said:

Josh dodged a bullet.

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Can you imagine needing to deal with those WRs and that QB all week AND having to be babysat by the (incompetent) ownership ?

That city had such high hopes this time last year. But they are back in the gutter.

farn said:

Can you imagine needing to deal with those WRs and that QB all week AND having to be babysat by the (incompetent) ownership ?

That city had such high hopes this time last year. But they are back in the gutter.

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Clearly the Browns is a culture of entitlement, lacking discipline and enablement. Josh knows this. The entire league knows this.

If we believe the below article, it seems to me Haslem doesn't totally agree and wants to let that culture exist one more year.

Steve Doerschuk: Josh McDaniels wouldn't back down; Browns owner backed away

Kenneth Sims said:

I’m not a fan of nepotism. It’s inevitably in a family owned business, but it should be avoided everywhere else. Especially in football which is the ultimate meritocracy.

It’s poison to an organization creating hard feelings amongst employees who even if it’s not the case see the relative/friend as receiving preferable treatment. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that you saw a full scale exodus of defensive staff last year and then Greg Schiano’s quick departure. Would not be surprised if there are not more departures this off season.

Actually, if Bill wants what’s best for Stephen Belichick coaching career, he’d make sure his son got out of his shadow and made a name for himself on his own with another staff.

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I made a post about the dangers of nepotism to the health of the Patriots culture a couple of years ago and got more negative (even angry) reaction here than positive. Emperor's clothes.

Every leader and leadership team of every organization, now and in the past, has blind spots and repeats the same mistakes over time. What determines success is the ability to take feedback from people outside of the leadership, and discover those mistakes.

There's no doubt that Kraft family and Belichick's strengths have overcome a lot of that up to now but at some point, it catches up. Is Stephen Belichick the best possible candidate for the responsibilities he's been given? Odds are very low on that. So the overall health of the organization is being harmed by the use of privilege granted to Belichick, due to his heretofore otherworldly success. It happens. The price is always paid. And as you point out above, it usually comes in small doses that add up and lead to outcomes (like people leaving early) that are somewhat opaque at the time.

Ochmed Jones said:

Does Troy brown become our full time wide receiver coach?

based on the job mayo did this year, I think Troy deserves a shot.

any chance we steal brad seely from the Texans as our special teams coach next year?

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What’s wrong with just moving Achord up to ST coach? I’m good with Troy if he wants the job.