Numerous Personnel Mistakes since the off season

patsinthesnow said:

Out of all the questionable moves made I would love to hear BB's rationale regarding drafting Joejuan Williams at pick 45 & his usage. Talk about a luxury pick.

preseason:

201 snaps
12 targets
3 receptions
39.6 passer rating
0.17 yards per cover snap

regular season:

80 snaps
6 targets
3 receptions
66.0 passer rating
0.60 yards per cover snap (3rd in NFL)

1) Why draft a 6'4" corner in the top half of the 2nd round when you have Gilmore, McCourty & Jackson on the outside while TE is a wasteland?

2) Why draft a 6'4" corner and not put him on TEs while Chung & Brooks are getting owned?

Unlike some recent picks Williams has shown in limited time that he can play. Not sure his path to playing time if they won't play him at SS moving forward.

Besides missing on picks players that may be hits (Winovich, Williams) don't play enough.

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You have to wonder if they even Scouted TE Dawson Knoxs he was moving up the Draft Boards. I have seen BB take a chance on worse players he would have been a nice pick for us even where they picked SlowQuan. Many Posters hated the pick which is not a good sign. BB drafts have been overrated he has had more luck in with UDFA's.

Too many high luxury picks in the last two drafts. Sony was a luxury pick (and as far as I am concerned a bad one) as was Joejuan Williams and Damien Harris (in part because of Sony). Had we gone TE or receiver at either of those picks at worst we would have cheap bodies at two of our thinnest positions.

Maybe JoeJuan Williams was drafted to replace J-Mac? It's possible he retires or gets cut or something right? I realize they are different types of players though.

203Pat said:

Too many high luxury picks in the last two drafts. Sony was a luxury pick (and as far as I am concerned a bad one) as was Joejuan Williams and Damien Harris (in part because of Sony). Had we gone TE or receiver at either of those picks at worst we would have cheap bodies at two of our thinnest positions.

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Yeah, this is tough. I largely agree with your assessment.

Looking at Sony’s college highlights, I legitimately believe he was worth a late-1st. He was dynamic and looked like a potential Kamara 2.0. For whatever reason the team had him gain weight in lieu of having him stay lighter and remain a dual threat. Mind boggling and poor strength/conditioning and player development. Sony had (and maybe still has) the chance to be more than a pure RB, which could make him more valuable and worthy of the 1st round pick. But as things stand, yes, that was a poor investment. He needs to come into 2020 6-10 pounds lighter and focus on plyometrics and agility ladder work to try to re-become the player he was at UGA.

In terms of Williams, yes he was a luxury pick, but a worthwhile one IMO. This guy could be scary good. Massive versatility, physical, long as heck, can handle big WRs, TEs, probably play S. He was a late riser, seems to have a great head on his shoulders, and is physically off the charts. Browner-like physicality but much quicker on his feet. So I agree that was a luxury pick, but one I’m fine with; can’t pass on a guy with that physical talent, ability, and potential.

Stuff you’re already aware of, just wanted to offer my rationale and 2 cents.

ivanvamp said:

I'm pointing out that last year's team really wasn't better than this year's team on the whole. The offense was better but the defense was worse. But they put it together when they needed to. This year's team didn't.

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Gotta agree with you - I think Gronk/Develin was a huge reason they were able to put it together, as many have noted. They just didn't end up with the horses at the end.

There were many times in 2018 where it looked like they had whiffed and/or gotten burned by injuries or age at WR/TE/RB...

- Edelman was suspended
- Hogan was washed
- Dorsett was meh
- Develin blew Jeremy Hill's knee out
- Patterson was a gimmick guy at best
- Gordon came and went even though he was an unexpected boost for the position midseason it exposed a failure of offseason planning
- Gronk was clearly a step slower (supposedly this was known in advance by BB and used as a justification he shopped him in the offseason)
- Allen was maligned b/c he was basically a zero as receiver
- Michel was ok if unspectacular but got hurt in the middle
- Burkhead missed games and didn't show much until the playoffs

...that was in the year they WON. One might almost say they got away with some errors in roster building, and perhaps that informed some arrogance, oversights, or misses with regard to the 2019 team.

TommyBrady12 said:

Discussing Bill's mistakes is fine. Whining about them like you did in the above post is another thing. It's as if you feel entitled to a 7th Super Bowl.

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What the hell are you even talking about?

I am participating in a thread which is literally focused on the personnel mistakes that led to an early playoff exit. What on earth is wrong with you?

Gronk said:

Gotta agree with you - I think Gronk/Develin was a huge reason they were able to put it together, as many have noted. They just didn't end up with the horses at the end.

There were many times in 2018 where it looked like they had whiffed and/or gotten burned by injuries or age at WR/TE/RB...

- Edelman was suspended
- Hogan was washed
- Dorsett was meh
- Develin blew Jeremy Hill's knee out
- Patterson was a gimmick guy at best
- Gordon came and went even though he was an unexpected boost for the position midseason it exposed a failure of offseason planning
- Gronk was clearly a step slower (supposedly this was known in advance by BB and used as a justification he shopped him in the offseason)
- Allen was maligned b/c he was basically a zero as receiver
- Michel was ok if unspectacular but got hurt in the middle
- Burkhead missed games and didn't show much until the playoffs

...that was in the year they WON. One might almost say they got away with some errors in roster building, and perhaps that informed some arrogance, oversights, or misses with regard to the 2019 team.

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One minor gripe: Patterson was a niche player but hardly a gimmick.

Most dangerous Patriots player I’ve seen in the open field in recent memory. I’ve never seen a player with that combination of speed, power, and quickness.

Easily the best KR we’ve had in the Belichick era, consistently good for the 30+, and a legit threat to score every time he touched the ball. Going from him to Bolden on KRs was an underrated drop-off, and in the macro had a big impact on field position over the course of the season.

I think people underrate the impact Patterson made in spots.

Give Kraft A Hand said:

The Pats were doomed once Devlin went down. Now its clear how much this offense actually revolves around the fullback. Kind of weird to say since the stat sheet never would show it. But yes the biggest mistake was probably ****ing around with Cook and letting him go to the Saints.

I think Harry will be a stud next year. Him getting injured probably didn't help matters but when the team called on him he pretty much answered. Dorsett is probably gone. Sanu hopefully is gone via trade.

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I spit my drink out reading your screen name.

supafly said:

What the hell are you even talking about?

I am participating in a thread which is literally focused on the personnel mistakes that led to an early playoff exit. What on earth is wrong with you?

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Well sup, I can't speak for anyone else but what's wrong with me is I'm caustically sarcastic, have too many bills, have a lower back issue and I spend too much time online on a football posting board.

dreighver said:

One minor gripe: Patterson was a niche player but hardly a gimmick.

Most dangerous Patriots player I’ve seen in the open field in recent memory. I’ve never seen a player with that combination of speed, power, and quickness.

Easily the best KR we’ve had in the Belichick era, consistently good for the 30+, and a legit threat to score every time he touched the ball. Going from him to Bolden on KRs was an underrated drop-off, and in the macro had a big impact on field position over the course of the season.

I think people underrate the impact Patterson made in spots.

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Probably the best kick return man ever?

Just an explosive player. Too bad he never put it all together. So fun & every team can use him. Also love how physical he is. Believe he was clocked at top 5 speed this year or close to it.

TheBostonStraggler said:

Well sup, I can't speak for anyone else but what's wrong with me is I'm caustically sarcastic, have too many bills, have a lower back issue and I spend too much time online on a football posting board.

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dreighver said:

One minor gripe: Patterson was a niche player but hardly a gimmick.

Most dangerous Patriots player I’ve seen in the open field in recent memory. I’ve never seen a player with that combination of speed, power, and quickness.

Easily the best KR we’ve had in the Belichick era, consistently good for the 30+, and a legit threat to score every time he touched the ball. Going from him to Bolden on KRs was an underrated drop-off, and in the macro had a big impact on field position over the course of the season.

I think people underrate the impact Patterson made in spots.

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That's fair, niche vs. gimmick. Was only speaking of the way they ended up using him as RB because they were so short, and out of the backfield in certain packages thereafter. Your word describes his role better for sure. As an end/WR, he didn't fill anything they've traditionally done.

203Pat said:

Too many high luxury picks in the last two drafts. Sony was a luxury pick (and as far as I am concerned a bad one) as was Joejuan Williams and Damien Harris (in part because of Sony). Had we gone TE or receiver at either of those picks at worst we would have cheap bodies at two of our thinnest positions.

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Please define "luxury" for draft picks.

BaconGrundleCandy said:

Probably the best kick return man ever?

Just an explosive player. Too bad he never put it all together. So fun & every team can use him. Also love how physical he is. Believe he was clocked at top 5 speed this year or close to it.

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Kick returns were hardly discussed this season, but they were abysmal. Huge drop off from last season. Maybe inconsequential given our inability to turn short fields into points at an even mediocre rate, but still worth discussing.

betterthanthealternative said:

Please define "luxury" for draft picks.

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When people refer to luxury picks they normally mean selections made that weren’t necessarily needs at the time, or more specifically, positions that could even be seen as strengths.

Of course, you never know when those positions are no longer seen as strengths, and sometimes the talent of the player is just too much to pass on. Most will say that Belichick always takes the best player available no matter what, but more often than not he combines talent AND some level of need.

Vindicate said:

Kick returns were hardly discussed this season, but they were abysmal. Huge drop off from last season. Maybe inconsequential given our inability to turn short fields into points at an even mediocre rate, but still worth discussing.

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Absolutely. The decision to make Brandon Bolden a kick returner was puzzling from the opening kick of the season; and while having Mohamed Sanu return punts made sense on some level due to his experience, it surely didn’t work out too well and could be questioned too—especially if his ankle was 1/2 as bad as some believe.

primetime said:

The tight end complaint is weird mainly because the number of good tight ends in football is pretty small and none of them were available (and some of those guys are just big receivers who don't block). They could have drafted every tight end with all their picks and they would have come away with Dawson Knox, who was fine but played like a rookie against the Texans. Other than that it's basically a ball of nothing up and down the draft, at least for now (but tight end is also one of the hardest positions to acclimate to in the NFL).

Jared Cook was the best they could have done and they screwed the pooch on him, but man Jared Cook is pretty uninspiring.

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There are lots of decent blocking TEs in the league to be had at an ok price. That could have helped the running game. Dwayne Allen was decent for us in that role. Neither Watson or LaCosse could block well.

Bolden was 9th in the NFL this year in Kick Off Returns with a 22.4 average, Patterson was #2 with a 29.5 average...

Patterson signed a 2 year contract with Chicago for about $10 mil total
Bolden signed a 2 year contract for less than $4 mil total..

Not defending Bolden, but salary cap was an issue... FYI I really liked Patterson.

Back to the topic at hand the loss of Develin and the retirement of Gronk were huge, particularly as there was no adequate replacement at TE...

betterthanthealternative said:

Please define "luxury" for draft picks.

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Spending high draft picks to spots already well-stocked. Imagine if we spent a 1st in 2020 draft on a RB. I think you'd call it a luxury, no matter how gone or generational that RB talent was that was available in the first round, since we just picked Sony 2 years ago and he's still on the roster and other positions needed attention/draft capital.

DarrylS said:

Bolden was 9th in the NFL this year in Kick Off Returns with a 22.4 average, Patterson was #2 with a 29.5 average...

Patterson signed a 2 year contract with Chicago for about $10 mil total
Bolden signed a 2 year contract for less than $4 mil total..

Not defending Bolden, but salary cap was an issue... FYI I really liked Patterson.

Back to the topic at hand the loss of Develin and the retirement of Gronk were huge, particularly as there was no adequate replacement at TE...

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I’m shocked that Bolden was ranked that high. We didn’t seem to have many good returns from what I remember, and I think the average starting field position was a bit worse than many years, but I could be misremembering.