Numerous Personnel Mistakes since the off season

TheRainMaker said:

Yes, but there are cases in which I deal with in negotiations where people lowball to see how desperate the other party is to make a deal. They want to see how much wiggle room there is in coming down in the price.

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I think it’s probably common knowledge to most that Belichick (an economics major) often underbids during negotiations. As a whole, he’s been quite successful in building year-to-year rosters. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work out all of the time.

supafly said:

I’m not sure where you’re going with pointing out the fact that they lacked in certain key areas like TE, run blocking, and better play from the WRs (Dorsett caught two TDs in the 2018 postseason), which ultimately led to their success. Last year’s team had better blocking (Devlin), a TE who made “the” key play to win the SB (Gronk), a WR who actually produced (Dorsett), and a RB who was regularly carrying for 100+ yards and who scored 6 touchdowns in the postseason (Michel).

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You give credit to dorsett but his time here has been meh. He’s gone. They need to add a tight end a capable receiver.

patsinthesnow said:

Out of all the questionable moves made I would love to hear BB's rationale regarding drafting Joejuan Williams at pick 45 & his usage. Talk about a luxury pick.

preseason:

201 snaps
12 targets
3 receptions
39.6 passer rating
0.17 yards per cover snap

regular season:

80 snaps
6 targets
3 receptions
66.0 passer rating
0.60 yards per cover snap (3rd in NFL)

1) Why draft a 6'4" corner in the top half of the 2nd round when you have Gilmore, McCourty & Jackson on the outside while TE is a wasteland?

2) Why draft a 6'4" corner and not put him on TEs while Chung & Brooks are getting owned?

Unlike some recent picks Williams has shown in limited time that he can play. Not sure his path to playing time if they won't play him at SS moving forward.

Besides missing on picks players that may be hits (Winovich, Williams) don't play enough.

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I’m wondering if Williams can’t take care of some of Chung’s responsibilities in terms of utilizing his size to take on a more physical role? If that’s the case, I can understand the pick.

TheRainMaker said:

I’m guessing where they are coming from is that the Patriots make an offer and set their price. Their standpoint is that player should be grateful he got an offer from an organization like the Pats and take less money.

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I wouldn't say that is the same as lowballing. Lowballing is more like giving someone an offer that is unfairly low. NE wins titles because Bill manages the cap well and sometimes that means getting players for less than the players themselves are looking for. It's a great negotiation tool - "If you want to win titles, here is what we are willing to offer you."

NYCPATS4LIFE said:

You give credit to dorsett but his time here has been meh. He’s gone. They need to add a tight end a capable receiver.

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Dorsett completely blows. He’s failed miserably in his three seasons here. The only reason I brought him up is because he was the WR who stepped up for us in last year’s playoffs by catching 2 touchdowns, and I think we were missing that in 2019.

1 - no decent TE......either at blocking or at pass catching......hell, even Dwayne Allen could have been used as a decent blocker......Izzo and Lacosse were a waste of time and Watson should have been a backup only

2 - you always need to have a real FB on the practice squad if you carry an FB on the regular roster.......sorry, German guy was not a real FB

3 - no OT depth......Karras was OK........but everything went to poop when Wynn went down and it never really recovered.

4 - lack of interior DT depth.......Shelton and Guy wore down later in the season. Cowart showed well but never got enough time and wasn't stout enough to be a presence on most running downs.

5 - still need a fast LB situationally

6 - they tried at WR......it just didn't work out.....early on it looked like the team was loaded......they miscalculated on AB and Gordon

patsinthesnow said:

Out of all the questionable moves made I would love to hear BB's rationale regarding drafting Joejuan Williams at pick 45 & his usage. Talk about a luxury pick.

preseason:

201 snaps
12 targets
3 receptions
39.6 passer rating
0.17 yards per cover snap

regular season:

80 snaps
6 targets
3 receptions
66.0 passer rating
0.60 yards per cover snap (3rd in NFL)

1) Why draft a 6'4" corner in the top half of the 2nd round when you have Gilmore, McCourty & Jackson on the outside while TE is a wasteland?

2) Why draft a 6'4" corner and not put him on TEs while Chung & Brooks are getting owned?

Unlike some recent picks Williams has shown in limited time that he can play. Not sure his path to playing time if they won't play him at SS moving forward.

Besides missing on picks players that may be hits (Winovich, Williams) don't play enough.

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NE has always been a team where rookies don't contribute much. Bill may have used Williams sparingly because he's just not aware of his assignment and that includes knowing what everyone else on the field is doing. It's different in NE and it's probably the biggest reason why it takes many of our draft picks a few years to get a handle on things.

patsinthesnow said:

Out of all the questionable moves made I would love to hear BB's rationale regarding drafting Joejuan Williams at pick 45 & his usage. Talk about a luxury pick.

preseason:

201 snaps
12 targets
3 receptions
39.6 passer rating
0.17 yards per cover snap

regular season:

80 snaps
6 targets
3 receptions
66.0 passer rating
0.60 yards per cover snap (3rd in NFL)

1) Why draft a 6'4" corner in the top half of the 2nd round when you have Gilmore, McCourty & Jackson on the outside while TE is a wasteland?

2) Why draft a 6'4" corner and not put him on TEs while Chung & Brooks are getting owned?

Unlike some recent picks Williams has shown in limited time that he can play. Not sure his path to playing time if they won't play him at SS moving forward.

Besides missing on picks players that may be hits (Winovich, Williams) don't play enough.

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It's called planning for the future. Maybe BB liked Williams better than the guys coming out in the 2020 draft. And maybe he wasn't sure how JMac would do this year, being a year older.

I agree that I would have liked to have seen Williams defend tight ends. See how he does in that role.

TommyBrady12 said:

I wouldn't say that is the same as lowballing. Lowballing is more like giving someone an offer that is unfairly low. NE wins titles because Bill manages the cap well and sometimes that means getting players for less than the players themselves are looking for. It's a great negotiation tool - "If you want to win titles, here is what we are willing to offer you."

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it works better if you won the most recent title.......there are quite a few teams who will be better sold as up and coming teams and not a team on it's way down

IllegalContact said:

1 - no decent TE......either at blocking or at pass catching......hell, even Dwayne Allen could have been used as a decent blocker......Izzo and Lacosse were a waste of time and Watson should have been a backup only

2 - you always need to have a real FB on the practice squad if you carry an FB on the regular roster.......sorry, German guy was not a real FB

3 - no OT depth......Karras was OK........but everything went to poop when Wynn went down and it never really recovered.

4 - lack of interior DT depth.......Shelton and Guy wore down later in the season. Cowart showed well but never got enough time and wasn't stout enough to be a presence on most running downs.

5 - still need a fast LB situationally

6 - they tried at WR......it just didn't work out.....early on it looked like the team was loaded......they miscalculated on AB and Gordon

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That DL has to be improved. They couldn’t get pressure without blitzing. They need wino to get stronger. They could another DL player. Didn’t get to see much of cowart.

Ladypatsfan said:

Maybe we need to hire a GM. BB has lost most of his coaching staff. He can't coach the team by himself and do the Gm job as well. He may need a little help. Like Brady, he is getting old too.

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ok.....let BB know.....he will run out and get one right away

IllegalContact said:

2 - you always need to have a real FB on the practice squad if you carry an FB on the regular roster.......sorry, German guy was not a real FB

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Literally no team does this. When I was looking up practice squads sometime after the Johnson injury, there was a single fullback on all 32 practice squads. He was an undrafted rookie who was converting from college HB to NFL FB.

NYCPATS4LIFE said:

That DL has to be improved. They couldn’t get pressure without blitzing. They need wino to get stronger. They could another DL player. Didn’t get to see much of cowart.

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I thought setting an edge and getting occupying interior OL was a bigger problem.......their pass rush wasn't bad until teams realized they could run

Sciz said:

Literally no team does this. When I was looking up practice squads sometime after the Johnson injury, there was a single fullback on all 32 practice squads. He was an undrafted rookie who was converting from college HB to NFL FB.

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develin started on the pats PS, and he was 31 this year........I mean what value did the pats PS provide this year anyway?

IllegalContact said:

develin started on the pats PS, and he was 31 this year........I mean what value did the pats PS provide this year anyway?

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Any practice squad player of value was snatched up by another team, three by Miami.
Unlike other years, there was very little movement between the practice squad
and the 53 man roster. Johnson? The Patriots did not always have 10 players on the
squad.

TommyBrady12 said:

NE has always been a team where rookies don't contribute much. Bill may have used Williams sparingly because he's just not aware of his assignment and that includes knowing what everyone else on the field is doing. It's different in NE and it's probably the biggest reason why it takes many of our draft picks a few years to get a handle on things.

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True, but Patriots rookie UDFA CB (Butler, Jackson, Jones..) seems to do better than 2nd round picks.

Many fans make themselves unnecessarily miserable by choosing an expectation that players drafted by the Pats (at the end of every round) are a failure if they don't play in their rookie season.

The primary purpose of the draft for the Pats is to replenish the pipeline of emerging talent for years in the future. Normally, only one or two players make significant contributions in the season they are drafted. The majority are about the future and fielding a solid team within cap restrictions.

Next year, for example, we'll probably see:

• First round guard Cajuste replace high cost Thuney
• Williams replace one of the aging/fading safeties
• Harris as a replacement for Burkhead and/or more playing time to save Michel's eroding knee
• Winovich replacing high cost KVN
• Jackson replacing an aging and expensive McCourty at CB
• and Stidham as insurance for an unpredictable Brady

That's four to six starters filling in behind stars who make their name as Pats and cash out with other teams or just wear out as championship caliber Patriots. This is working as it should.

Do we all want a higher hit rate, and more quality? Of course. But to expect the draft to fill the holes in the roster with high quality rookies every year is a formula for misery.

primetime said:

To be clear, it was known Cajuste wasn't going to play this year when he was drafted. He was a likely 1st rounder before he got hurt in a cliff diving incident, so they got him for pennies on the dollar knowing he wouldn't be available until the next season. Very similar to Marcus Cannon, actually, and it worked out pretty well with him. Froholdt was mostly just a project.

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Wait, it was a ****ing cliff diving injury this whole time and that fact somehow flew under my radar? Lmao

Elijah said:

Wait, it was a ****ing cliff diving injury this whole time and that fact somehow flew under my radar? Lmao

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"If Brady does it, I guess it's allowed, if not expected?"

Elijah said:

Wait, it was a ****ing cliff diving injury this whole time and that fact somehow flew under my radar? Lmao

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This is the first I’m hearing about it, too.