We Gave Up A 2nd Round Pick For Sanu

ivanvamp said:

Did Mohammed Sanu suddenly fall off a cliff? Because he's always been a solid NFL wide receiver. Period.

His last 3 seasons plus his 2019 time with Atl, for example:

2016: 81 targets, 59 receptions, 72.8%, 653 yds, 11.1 ypc
2017: 96 targets, 67 receptions, 69.8%, 703 yds, 10.5 ypc
2018: 94 targets, 66 receptions, 70.2%, 838 yds, 12.7 ypc
2019: 42 targets, 33 receptions, 78.6%, 313 yds, 9.5 ypc
TOTAL: 313 targets, 225 receptions, 71.9%, 2507 yds, 11.1 ypc

Then with NE: 47 targets, 26 receptions, 55.3%, 207 yds, 8.0 ypc

There was NO reason whatsoever to think that Sanu was anything but a solid solid NFL wide receiver. Not a game-breaker. Not the next Randy Moss. Not anything truly special, but absolutely, 100% a solid NFL WR.

Then he comes to NE and his performance completely falls off a cliff. What are the possible explanations for this?

1. He truly hit the wall in his career, and it just so happened to coincide with the exact moment he arrived in New England.

2. NE's system is so complex that even though he'd been successful in two different systems, with two very different quarterbacks, that he simply could not pick up NE's system.

3. He got hurt and his physical ailments negatively affected his performance.

4. The QB throwing him the ball was not as good as the QB throwing him the ball previously.

What are you guys going to say is the answer, because Sanu was absolutely a good wide receiver in the NFL prior to arriving in New England.

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#2-4, with the caveat that the Patriots system isn't more complex, it's just heavily reliant on being in sync with Brady and he was forced to learn on the fly. And yes Ryan's better than Brady at this point.

Everyone acknowledges that any receiver acquired midseason faces long odds to learn the offense and then it happens, with a nagging injury to boot, and the fans turn into ravening madmen declaring that the player sucks and must have always sucked.

Hell, fans were declaring Danny Amendola a bust and disappointment after his first season here and calling for him to be cut.

Sanu's been a reliable NFL WR with several teams and he was signed to a team-friendly deal. Cutting him for getting hurt and failing to make an impact is insane. It's not like there's a plethora of better WR talent free for the signing, and what's there is going to be a lot more expensive.

Wiluven said:

#2.

Similar to Harry. Harry was a playmaker in college who averaged 75 catches for 1000+ yards. I understand college is different but a playmaker, who was considered the top 1-2 WR in the draft doesn’t all of a sudden not know how to play the game. The issue has to be the system, right?

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If it's the system, that's cool. It just means that NE has to do a better job identifying guys who will work in this system. It's not an issue of Sanu *sucking* because quite clearly, he's always been a quality NFL wide receiver. He was successful in two different systems in Cincy and Atlanta. The guy can play football and can catch the ball.

But is NE's system REALLY that difficult? Brown seemed to pick it up instantly. Welker did. Moss did. Givens did. Some guys do and some guys don't. Doesn't mean they *suck* if they don't pick up this system.

primetime said:

#2-4.

Everyone acknowledges that any receiver acquired midseason faces long odds to learn the offense and then it happens, with a nagging injury to boot, and the fans turn into ravening madmen declaring that the player sucks and must have always sucked.

Hell, fans were declaring Danny Amendola a bust and disappointment after his first season here and calling for him to be cut.

Sanu's been a reliable NFL WR with several teams and he was signed to a team-friendly deal. Cutting him for getting hurt and failing to make an impact is insane. It's not like there's a plethora of better WR talent free for the signing, and what's there is going to be a lot more expensive.

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I agree. I think they should try to renegotiate his contract to save some $$ but I think he should be part of this team next year.

primetime said:

#2-4, with the caveat that the Patriots system isn't more complex, it's just heavily reliant on being in sync with Brady and he was forced to learn on the fly. And yes Ryan's better than Brady at this point.

Everyone acknowledges that any receiver acquired midseason faces long odds to learn the offense and then it happens, with a nagging injury to boot, and the fans turn into ravening madmen declaring that the player sucks and must have always sucked.

Hell, fans were declaring Danny Amendola a bust and disappointment after his first season here and calling for him to be cut.

Sanu's been a reliable NFL WR with several teams and he was signed to a team-friendly deal. Cutting him for getting hurt and failing to make an impact is insane. It's not like there's a plethora of better WR talent free for the signing, and what's there is going to be a lot more expensive.

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He looked old to me. Even in atlanta he didn’t look all that great. He got passed on the depth chart by a rookie. He was a fourth option there and you’re bringing him here to be a second option or 3rd option at best and he was awful.

ivanvamp said:

I agree. I think they should try to renegotiate his contract to save some $$ but I think he should be part of this team next year.

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I would be a little concern bringing him back unless he will be a fourth option. It looked like he has gotten slower than what he already is.

ivanvamp said:

Did Mohammed Sanu suddenly fall off a cliff? Because he's always been a solid NFL wide receiver. Period.

His last 3 seasons plus his 2019 time with Atl, for example:

2016: 81 targets, 59 receptions, 72.8%, 653 yds, 11.1 ypc
2017: 96 targets, 67 receptions, 69.8%, 703 yds, 10.5 ypc
2018: 94 targets, 66 receptions, 70.2%, 838 yds, 12.7 ypc
2019: 42 targets, 33 receptions, 78.6%, 313 yds, 9.5 ypc
TOTAL: 313 targets, 225 receptions, 71.9%, 2507 yds, 11.1 ypc

Then with NE: 47 targets, 26 receptions, 55.3%, 207 yds, 8.0 ypc

There was NO reason whatsoever to think that Sanu was anything but a solid solid NFL wide receiver. Not a game-breaker. Not the next Randy Moss. Not anything truly special, but absolutely, 100% a solid NFL WR.

Then he comes to NE and his performance completely falls off a cliff. What are the possible explanations for this?

1. He truly hit the wall in his career, and it just so happened to coincide with the exact moment he arrived in New England.

2. NE's system is so complex that even though he'd been successful in two different systems, with two very different quarterbacks, that he simply could not pick up NE's system.

3. He got hurt and his physical ailments negatively affected his performance.

4. The QB throwing him the ball was not as good as the QB throwing him the ball previously.

What are you guys going to say is the answer, because Sanu was absolutely a good wide receiver in the NFL prior to arriving in New England.

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primetime said:

#2-4, with the caveat that the Patriots system isn't more complex, it's just heavily reliant on being in sync with Brady and he was forced to learn on the fly. And yes Ryan's better than Brady at this point.

Everyone acknowledges that any receiver acquired midseason faces long odds to learn the offense and then it happens, with a nagging injury to boot, and the fans turn into ravening madmen declaring that the player sucks and must have always sucked.

Hell, fans were declaring Danny Amendola a bust and disappointment after his first season here and calling for him to be cut.

Sanu's been a reliable NFL WR with several teams and he was signed to a team-friendly deal. Cutting him for getting hurt and failing to make an impact is insane. It's not like there's a plethora of better WR talent free for the signing, and what's there is going to be a lot more expensive.

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All you need to do is look at Philip Dorsett and Chris Hogan to see the difference between a good complementary receiver and a good primary receiver. Dorsett and Hogan can both look like great receivers when Edelman and Gronkowski are on the field drawing double teams and causing defenses to put minimal effort into stopping other guys. In general, there's a rule of TWO in the NFL, that you really need to have two guys that can consistently beat man coverage. If you have that, then there's a domino effect where guys like Dorsett and Hogan go from being frogs to princes; when the star players are injured or cease to be there, they revert again from princes to frogs.

Sanu's numbers may look fine in Cincinnati and Atlanta, and it really isn't difficult to figure out why when you consider the superstar receivers and other terrific skill players around him. Of course he's going to get plenty of easy catches against the worst corner or more often against a zone designed to shut down the likes of Julio Jones and AJ Green.

The Patriots clearly thought Sanu was actually a primary guy, or at least something better than another Hogan/Dorsett type of receiver, hence the big draft pick price they paid for him. They were absolutely wrong. I don't even think Sanu was an upgrade over Dorsett, as his yards per target were much lower. He was a huge downgrade from Gordon. And they really needed a truly good man-coverage beating receiver because Edelman was so beaten up this year it's arguable they had anyone at all who required double coverage. The Antonio Brown signing makes a lot more sense in the context of this. Going into the season, the Patriots were okay at the position but had a lot invested in a 33 year-old Edelman who was likely to hit the WR wall and a guy who has suspended for substance abuse like 8 straight seasons.

Since their tight ends were truly the worst in the NFL, it was even more important for the wide receivers to be above average this year. Instead they had ended up with 5 wrs who were all deeply flawed for one reason or another.

NYCPATS4LIFE said:

I would be a little concern bringing him back unless he will be a fourth option. It looked like he has gotten slower than what he already is.

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Dude had an ankle injury.

ivanvamp said:

Did Mohammed Sanu suddenly fall off a cliff? Because he's always been a solid NFL wide receiver. Period.

His last 3 seasons plus his 2019 time with Atl, for example:

2016: 81 targets, 59 receptions, 72.8%, 653 yds, 11.1 ypc
2017: 96 targets, 67 receptions, 69.8%, 703 yds, 10.5 ypc
2018: 94 targets, 66 receptions, 70.2%, 838 yds, 12.7 ypc
2019: 42 targets, 33 receptions, 78.6%, 313 yds, 9.5 ypc
TOTAL: 313 targets, 225 receptions, 71.9%, 2507 yds, 11.1 ypc

Then with NE: 47 targets, 26 receptions, 55.3%, 207 yds, 8.0 ypc

There was NO reason whatsoever to think that Sanu was anything but a solid solid NFL wide receiver. Not a game-breaker. Not the next Randy Moss. Not anything truly special, but absolutely, 100% a solid NFL WR.

Then he comes to NE and his performance completely falls off a cliff. What are the possible explanations for this?

1. He truly hit the wall in his career, and it just so happened to coincide with the exact moment he arrived in New England.

2. NE's system is so complex that even though he'd been successful in two different systems, with two very different quarterbacks, that he simply could not pick up NE's system.

3. He got hurt and his physical ailments negatively affected his performance.

4. The QB throwing him the ball was not as good as the QB throwing him the ball previously.

What are you guys going to say is the answer, because Sanu was absolutely a good wide receiver in the NFL prior to arriving in New England.

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Your own stats show his ypc declined by 3.2 before coming to NE, and were the lowest of the 4 year span.

So take a declining WR, give him a new system, an injury, and move him up the CB food chain what do you get?

Maybe.

I suspect that Sanu might take the chance. After all, a team might want him more than the patriots who want to cut his compensation by half.

Chevrolet said:

If he doesn't renogotiate he could be cut and the team that picks up may not want to pay him even 3 million

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Sanu is under contract. Are you suggesting cutting him before the new season begins, freeing up some cap money?

NYCPATS4LIFE said:

I would be a little concern bringing him back unless he will be a fourth option. It looked like he has gotten slower than what he already is.

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Ice_Ice_Brady said:

All you need to do is look at Philip Dorsett and Chris Hogan to see the difference between a good complementary receiver and a good primary receiver. Dorsett and Hogan can both look like great receivers when Edelman and Gronkowski are on the field drawing double teams and causing defenses to put minimal effort into stopping other guys. In general, there's a rule of TWO in the NFL, that you really need to have two guys that can consistently beat man coverage. If you have that, then there's a domino effect where guys like Dorsett and Hogan go from being frogs to princes; when the star players are injured or cease to be there, they revert again from princes to frogs.

Sanu's numbers may look fine in Cincinnati and Atlanta, and it really isn't difficult to figure out why when you consider the superstar receivers and other terrific skill players around him. Of course he's going to get plenty of easy catches against the worst corner or more often against a zone designed to shut down the likes of Julio Jones and AJ Green.

The Patriots clearly thought Sanu was actually a primary guy, or at least something better than another Hogan/Dorsett type of receiver, hence the big draft pick price they paid for him. They were absolutely wrong. I don't even think Sanu was an upgrade over Dorsett, as his yards per target were much lower. He was a huge downgrade from Gordon. And they really needed a truly good man-coverage beating receiver because Edelman was so beaten up this year it's arguable they had anyone at all who required double coverage. The Antonio Brown signing makes a lot more sense in the context of this. Going into the season, the Patriots were okay at the position but had a lot invested in a 33 year-old Edelman who was likely to hit the WR wall and a guy who has suspended for substance abuse like 8 straight seasons.

Since their tight ends were truly the worst in the NFL, it was even more important for the wide receivers to be above average this year. Instead they had ended up with 5 wrs who were all deeply flawed for one reason or another.

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I agree with all that but I don't think the Patriots were operating under any illusions with Sanu. They were desperate and he was all that was available that would fit under the sliver of cap space remaining after the Brown fiasco. Edelman falling apart at the end of the year was the cherry on top, but there were plenty of other factors in Sanu's ineffectiveness that don't really reflect on the value Sanu can bring moving forward.

As I noted before, there were a couple times I noticed he was late off the snap checking his wristband cheat sheet for an audible which meant he was never getting open. That's an indication of not knowing the offense, not talent, and one easily fixable with OTAs and camp.

NYCPATS4LIFE said:

He looked old to me. Even in atlanta he didn’t look all that great. He got passed on the depth chart by a rookie. He was a fourth option there and you’re bringing him here to be a second option or 3rd option at best and he was awful.

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He was averaging 4 to 5 catches a game from Ryan as their fourth option behind Jones, Ridley, and Hooper. It was Hooper's emergence, not Ridley, who made Sanu surplus to requirements. But any one of those players would be a top option on the Patriots, so that's a lot less of an indictment of Sanu than you want it to be.

ivanvamp said:

Dude had an ankle injury.

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I’m not buying everything on that ankle injury. He was playing a high percentage of the snaps. If he was very injured you limit his snaps and give some of those snaps to meyers. I like meyers as a slot guy.

mgteich said:

Sanu is under contract. Are you suggesting cutting him before the new season begins, freeing up some cap money?

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I’m suggesting not bringing him back at 6.5. That’s a little too rich.

primetime said:

#2-4, with the caveat that the Patriots system isn't more complex, it's just heavily reliant on being in sync with Brady and he was forced to learn on the fly. And yes Ryan's better than Brady at this point.

Everyone acknowledges that any receiver acquired midseason faces long odds to learn the offense and then it happens, with a nagging injury to boot, and the fans turn into ravening madmen declaring that the player sucks and must have always sucked.

Hell, fans were declaring Danny Amendola a bust and disappointment after his first season here and calling for him to be cut.

Sanu's been a reliable NFL WR with several teams and he was signed to a team-friendly deal. Cutting him for getting hurt and failing to make an impact is insane. It's not like there's a plethora of better WR talent free for the signing, and what's there is going to be a lot more expensive.

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AB and Gordon picked it up in a matter of weeks Hmmmm Sanu must be an idiot Dorsett was clueless too. And Brady spent a lot of time with Sanu trying to get him up to speed.

primetime said:

He was averaging 4 to 5 catches a game from Ryan as their fourth option behind Jones, Ridley, and Hooper. It was Hooper's emergence, not Ridley, who made Sanu surplus to requirements. But any one of those players would be a top option on the Patriots, so that's a lot less of an indictment of Sanu than you want it to be.

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We all thought he was a decent #2 he got paid like one but he's closer to #4 which will soon be out of this League.

primetime said:

I agree with all that but I don't think the Patriots were operating under any illusions with Sanu. They were desperate and he was all that was available that would fit under the sliver of cap space remaining after the Brown fiasco. Edelman falling apart at the end of the year was the cherry on top, but there were plenty of other factors in Sanu's ineffectiveness that don't really reflect on the value Sanu can bring moving forward.

As I noted before, there were a couple times I noticed he was late off the snap checking his wristband cheat sheet for an audible which meant he was never getting open. That's an indication of not knowing the offense, not talent, and one easily fixable with OTAs and camp.

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I think you’re hyping up sanu. Bring him back but he’s nothing more than a fourth option. This team needs a tight end and a wideout that’s capable of beating man coverage. I like meyers as a future slot guy here.

NYCPATS4LIFE said:

I’m suggesting not bringing him back at 6.5. That’s a little too rich.

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I think if Sanu is in the plans Brady will be playing somewhere else.

PatsFan2 said:

AB and Gordon picked it up in a matter of weeks Hmmmm Sanu must be an idiot Dorsett was clueless too. And Brady spent a lot of time with Sanu trying to get him up to speed.

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That drop against Miami where he probably had an easy 40 yard TD on the short crosser hot route was just of many examples of the playbook not being the only issue. There’s also the incredibly lazy non-stretch play where couldn’t pick up an easy first down. He doesn’t do basic veteran things like come back to the ball and fend off defenders. He was supposed to have tremendous hands and literally was the worst looking receiver I’ve seen wear a Pats uniform when it came to catch rate. Even his 10 catch game when he was healthy showed how bad he is. He had 10 catches on 14 targets for 80 yards. He’s incapable, even when healthy, of any YAC. So basically he can’t catch contested passes, he can’t catch uncontested passes as a passable rate, he can’t gain any YAC, and he looks like he doesn’t care.

Dude is a massive bust and it would be insane to bring him back. Let him go back to some organization that expects to finish 6-10 and he can get some mop up production in garbage time.

I'd put another way.

Sanu got reps instead of Myers because 70% of Sanu was worth much more than what the team might expect from a healthy Meyers.

.

NYCPATS4LIFE said:

I’m not buying everything on that ankle injury. He was playing a high percentage of the snaps. If he was very injured you limit his snaps and give some of those snaps to meyers. I like meyers as a slot guy.

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