Brady named to NFL 100 All-Time team

Deus Irae said:

But that doesn't mean that Elway's teams didn't belong in the Super Bowl and/or weren't legitimately in the SB. Being the best in a weaker conference doesn't mean you didn't belong in the title game. Elway's SB trips were with teams that went:

11-5 (2nd best record in the conference)
10-4-1 (best record in the conference)
11-5 (best record in the conference)
12-4 (2nd best record in the conference)
14-2 (best record in the conference)

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His teams were totally outclassed and it showed. That’s what I mean by they didn’t belong. I’m not questioning the legitimacy. They deserved to be there. They won the games

primetime said:

It would be pretty bonkers if Drew Brees didn't make it but I guess you have to include guys like Sammy Baugh who nobody living actually saw play.

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Baugh, Graham and Unitas sorta invented the modern QB over the 45-50's. Baugh also led the league in Punting and INT's in the same year. So he has to be somewhere in the top 100.

Aikman isn't even mentioned on this thread with 3 SB wins. Tough positional group to crack.

Another old timer who could get consideration is Sid Luckman Bears QB from the 40's.

So who will be in studio with Brady they have usually had 3 players. I would guess Montana, Who else?

patsfan13 said:

Baugh, Graham and Unitas sorta invented the modern QB over the 45-50's. Baugh also led the league in Punting and INT's in the same year. So he has to be somewhere in the top 100.

Aikman isn't even mentioned on this thread with 3 SB wins. Tough positional group to crack.

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Good points.

I gave Aikman an honorable mention/finalist designation on my list earlier in this thread. I don’t think he’ll crack the top 10 but worthy of lots of praise. I think Aikman wins more than one title with Favre’s mid-90s Packers. I don’t think Favre wins three with Aikman’s Cowboys. So many angles to look at with QBs. Favre so much more “talented” than Aikman, but I’ll take Aikman’s decision making over Favre’s, which led to too many reckless turnovers and losses.

patsfan13 said:

Another old timer who could get consideration is Sid Luckman Bears QB from the 40's.

So who will be in studio with Brady they have usually had 3 players. I would guess Montana, Who else?

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That’s a good call. There are some dark horses if we dig up history and go back further, as voters have tended to do. In addition some names from the all-decade NFL teams have been off the radar. Following up on my last list here and turning over more rocks.

Deeper dig into the 70s first. Ken Stabler tied with Staubach for 2nd team of the 1970s. Bradshaw was first. Most of us have Staubach as a lock, but the voters 25 years ago had him as tied for second best of the 70s. That trio of 70s QBs is a big question mark. You also have Tarkenton in there, who some felt was the most talented. That decade is the biggest clusterfck for rankings and supremacy.

Sonny Jurgnsen has not been brought up yet but made the 1960s all-decade team with Starr and Unitas. Won a championship and a ton of individual awards. Still putting him just short due to his contemporaries...excelled for both Skins and Eagles.

Bobby Layne was a total stud who was Otto Graham’s rival. He won 3 championships and 7 all-pros while earning all-decade in the 1950s. Deserves top-10 consideration.

Norm Van Brocklin is another guy worthy of mention...basically the third best QB of the 50s after Graham and Layne. 2X champ. But again just falls short of top 10 due to 3rd of his era.

In the 1940s we have Bob Waterfield on the all-decade team. 2X champ, MVP, statistical leader. Very solid...don’t see him making top 10 though.

And as you mentioned, Sid Luckman. 4X champion, 5X all-pro, dominated individual awards. Luckman and Baugh dominated the 1940s.

Baugh must be a lock considering he was on the 75th anniversary team, one of just four QBs. Luckman is close by accomplishments.

Here’s my updated list, in no order other than grouping by confidence level they’ll get in.

Confirmed
1. Brady
2. Montana

Virtual Locks
3. Baugh
4. Graham
5. Unitas

Favorites
6. Starr
7. Staubach
8. Manning

Dog Fight Candidates for final two spots (all have really strong cases)

• Elway
• Layne
• Luckman

(Guys Who Have Recency Bias Going for Them, but IMO are not worthy of top 10, though I bet we are disappointed with the fan pandering and modern QBs)

• Bradshaw (more “pop culture” and Steelers bias)
• Brees
• Favre
• Marino
• Rodgers

Been a fan of the NFL since the 50's and saw a lot of these guys in B&W on a 16 inch low def TV, when the game was completely different than it is now..

Always thought these lists would be better by decade, rather than by century.. too many worthy players will not make the cut..

Not advocating for YA Tittle, but this pix puts it somewhat in perspective the game was completely different.. FYI Tittle suffered a concussion and cracked sternum, then went on to play the rest of the season(1964), this happened in the second game of the season and he returned the following week...

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Good points.

I gave Aikman an honorable mention/finalist designation on my list earlier in this thread. I don’t think he’ll crack the top 10 but worthy of lots of praise. I think Aikman wins more than one title with Favre’s mid-90s Packers. I don’t think Favre wins three with Aikman’s Cowboys. So many angles to look at with QBs. Favre so much more “talented” than Aikman, but I’ll take Aikman’s decision making over Favre’s, which led to too many reckless turnovers and losses.

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Decision making is arguably the most important “talent” for a QB.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

That’s a good call. There are some dark horses if we dig up history and go back further, as voters have tended to do. In addition some names from the all-decade NFL teams have been off the radar. Following up on my last list here and turning over more rocks.

Deeper dig into the 70s first. Ken Stabler tied with Staubach for 2nd team of the 1970s. Bradshaw was first. Most of us have Staubach as a lock, but the voters 25 years ago had him as tied for second best of the 70s. That trio of 70s QBs is a big question mark. You also have Tarkenton in there, who some felt was the most talented. That decade is the biggest clusterfck for rankings and supremacy.

Sonny Jurgnsen has not been brought up yet but made the 1960s all-decade team with Starr and Unitas. Won a championship and a ton of individual awards. Still putting him just short due to his contemporaries...excelled for both Skins and Eagles.

Bobby Layne was a total stud who was Otto Graham’s rival. He won 3 championships and 7 all-pros while earning all-decade in the 1950s. Deserves top-10 consideration.

Norm Van Brocklin is another guy worthy of mention...basically the third best QB of the 50s after Graham and Layne. 2X champ. But again just falls short of top 10 due to 3rd of his era.

In the 1940s we have Bob Waterfield on the all-decade team. 2X champ, MVP, statistical leader. Very solid...don’t see him making top 10 though.

And as you mentioned, Sid Luckman. 4X champion, 5X all-pro, dominated individual awards. Luckman and Baugh dominated the 1940s.

Baugh must be a lock considering he was on the 75th anniversary team, one of just four QBs. Luckman is close by accomplishments.

Here’s my updated list, in no order other than grouping by confidence level they’ll get in.

Confirmed
1. Brady
2. Montana

Virtual Locks
3. Baugh
4. Graham
5. Unitas

Favorites
6. Starr
7. Staubach
8. Manning

Dog Fight Candidates for final two spots (all have really strong cases)

• Elway
• Layne
• Luckman

(Guys Who Have Recency Bias Going for Them, but IMO are not worthy of top 10, though I bet we are disappointed with the fan pandering and modern QBs)

• Bradshaw (more “pop culture” and Steelers bias)
• Brees
• Favre
• Marino
• Rodgers

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Jurgensen didn’t win a championship. He sat on the bench for one. In fact he only played in one post season game and that was in relief and was 6/12 with 3 picks

The fact posters in this thread think Troy Aikman has an argument for being one of the 10 best QBs of all-time tells you a lot.

primetime said:

The fact posters in this thread think Troy Aikman has an argument for being one of the 10 best QBs of all-time tells you a lot.

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Aikman was the right QB for those DAL teams. To win 3 SBs a QB needs to do their job well.

Did those teams win because of him? Hell no.

That's why he isn't in the top 15 or maybe 20

BlueThunder said:

Crap...No wonder you can't remember if you saw him play..You're older than dirt

I was 9 in 1952 and thought I was ancient !

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Geez I was born in 52, guess I am just a kid

robertweathers said:

Aikman was the right QB for those DAL teams. To win 3 SBs a QB needs to do their job well.

Did those teams win because of him? Hell no.

That's why he isn't in the top 15 or maybe 20

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The obsession with Super Bowl wins as a metric of measuring individual performance leads to weird conclusions. Without the benefit of multi-game series, individual games turn on weird and often random events over which individual players have little to no influence (often because they're on the sidelines!) - that's fun as a fan, but judging entire careers on 12 drives in a game (and probably fewer in the old days where the pace was slower) is a bit much and leads to conclusions like Eli Manning being a Hall of Fame quarterback.

Troy Aikman was no better than Drew Bledsoe, he just had the benefit of playing on teams with historically good players on both sides of the ball for a few years.

primetime said:

The obsession with Super Bowl wins as a metric of measuring individual performance leads to weird conclusions. Without the benefit of multi-game series, individual games turn on weird and often random events over which individual players have little to no influence (often because they're on the sidelines!) - that's fun as a fan, but judging entire careers on 12 drives in a game (and probably fewer in the old days where the pace was slower) is a bit much and leads to conclusions like Eli Manning being a Hall of Fame quarterback.

Troy Aikman was no better than Drew Bledsoe, he just had the benefit of playing on teams with historically good players on both sides of the ball for a few years.

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Yup.

Career INT %
Bledsoe: 3.1
Aikman: 3.0

Career TD %
Bledsoe: 3.7
Aikman: 3.5

Throw Drew on those DAL teams and they win as well.

The official list of finalists is out, Warren Moon didn't make the finalist list even but Joe Namath and Dan Fouts did.

sean10mm said:

The official list of finalists is out, Warren Moon didn't make the finalist list even but Joe Namath and Dan Fouts did.

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Moon should have made it over Fouts, Aikman, or Namath (though the latter at least has historical relevance). Kelly maybe too. Roethlisberger probably has an argument as well; he won Super Bowls and was statistically superior (even adjusting for era) to those guys for a longer time, and though I think Rivers was generally superior to Roethlisberger the rings argument will win out. Otherwise it's tough to argue.

I think Fouts is a tough inclusion when any Chargers fan would tell you he's not the franchise's greatest quarterback, but Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Manning probably felt like just enough modern QBs.

I predicted weeks ago Brees was only 50/50 on making it and that Rodgers wouldn't. Eisen in an interview let it drop the QB reveal would be the most controversial of all. I know that screams ratings grab but the way he said it makes me think even more that at least Rodgers is out.

Which honestly he should be. He's really the 4th best QB of his era behind Brady, Brees and Manning. Some of the other lists had the 4th, 5th or 6th rated positional player from the 70's and I was eye-rolling.

Baugh, Unitas and Graham were on the 75th team so they're locks.

So 6-10 IMO

6. Manning
7. Marino
8. Favre
9. Staubach
10. Elway

robertweathers said:

Aikman was the right QB for those DAL teams. To win 3 SBs a QB needs to do their job well.

Did those teams win because of him? Hell no.

That's why he isn't in the top 15 or maybe 20

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Of course they won because of him. He was the guy on the field making the plays.

Ring 6 said:

Of course they won because of him. He was the guy on the field making the plays.

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Andy got you Rdubs. This one's going to be impossible to argue, just like the Patriots won it last year because of, uh, Phillip Dorsett, who was a guy out there making the plays. Checkmate *****.

When will they finally announce the QBs? It seems like it’s taking forever.

NYCPATS4LIFE said:

When will they finally announce the QBs? It seems like it’s taking forever.

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The show on NFL Network this Friday.