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Penalties being considered for the Pats - UPDATED 1/1/2020


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All of the non-Exponent mathematicians concluded the same thing. The difference in 0.3 expected PSI can be accounted for by:

A. The gauge that Anderson said he used, rather than the other gauge that he said he didn’t used but the Wells report chooses to use nonetheless.

or

B. An elaborate scheme to remove an extra 0.3 PSI (an absurdly small amount, certainly different from the 2-3 pounds!!!! leak) from each football. And so coincidentally 0.3 was both the difference in gauges and the amount they nefariously decided to release.

And even if you do believe the other gauge was used (because you are really stupid), the 0.3 difference is well within the margin of error since exact conditions were unknown and testing devices were not precise.
Absolutely. That’s why I *know* no deflation happened at the AFCCG.

It truly is an amazing testament to the stupidity of the NFL, mediots, and fans that they refuse to acknowledge that the NFL’s bought and paid for “experts” actually proved that nothing happened in that game that wasn’t the operation of basic physics.
 
BASELESS SPECULATION

I think they're trying to tie it to Belichick. I will not be surprised at all if he gets a Deflategate-style Ted Wells investigation. This should be finished by now.

In 2016, when the Giants found that the Steelers were using deflated footballs, the NFL cleared them of any wrongdoing in less than an hour. This was after the NFL spent months investigating the Patriots for the same infraction. If a football inflated below 12.5 PSI is such a threat to the integrity of the game, how could the league eliminate any possibility of illegal tampering in less than 60 minutes?

For this case, they'd need to talk to the Patriots, Browns and Bengals. If they were being thorough, they could question the teams involved in other games Patriots advanced scouts have attended this season. I don't see how that could take longer than a week. I agree that it should be finished by now, but, for some reason, the league likes the controversy.

With regard to trying to implicate Belichick, the Wells report specifically cleared him, even though he at least would have been in the building and people under the football ops umbrella would have been involved in any alleged football tampering. I don't know how an investigation would be able to tie Belichick to people who don't report to him and were in a different stadium at the time.
 
What about the text where McNally says "the only thing that is going to deflate is Tom's passer rating"? Can't explain this away by some fantasy notion that "deflate" means weight loss...

Asked. Answered already.

He was even referring to that exchange in the post you responded to. Brady told them to confront the refs with the rulebook. He was angry at them for not deflating the footballs. They clearly informed him it was the refs responsibility. So Brady said, show them the rulebook.

Why is this so difficult to understand?
 
1. What's the evidence for #2. Based on what???? Where does any of that even come from? I never saw anything that said they did it outside of their two texts. That's what the whole thing was based on.
2. The Ravens didn't know squat. Those balls were totally controlled by refs. Delusional.
Quantum, how can you disagree with questions? Absurd. Unless you dont want to answer them.
 
Asked. Answered already.

He was even referring to that exchange in the post you responded to. Brady told them to confront the refs with the rulebook. He was angry at them for not deflating the footballs. They clearly informed him it was the refs responsibility. So Brady said, show them the rulebook.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

Wrong. McNally was mad at Brady in this exchange with Jastremski. He was clearly using the term to mean "deflating footballs," not weight loss

Jastremski: Can't wait to give your needle this week

McNally: F Tom...make sure the pump is attached to the needle...f'in watermelons coming

Jastremski: So angry

McNally: The only thing that is deflating sun...is his passer rating​

I don't doubt Brady's sincerity in going to the refs with the rulebook. What I am talking about is McNally's use of term "deflate."
 
Wrong. McNally was mad at Brady in this exchange with Jastremski. He was clearly using the term to mean "deflating footballs," not weight loss

Jastremski: Can't wait to give your needle this week

McNally: F Tom...make sure the pump is attached to the needle...f'in watermelons coming

Jastremski: So angry

McNally: The only thing that is deflating sun...is his passer rating

I don't doubt Brady's sincerity in going to the refs with the rulebook. What I am talking about is McNally's use of term "deflate."

No 0ne said he was using weight loss. Weight loss refers to the other texts. We've made this clear.
 
No 0ne said he was using weight loss. Weight loss refers to the other texts. We've made this clear.

So he is using the term "deflate" to mean both taking air out of footballs AND weight loss? Right....do you realize how stupid this sounds, especially to a non-patriots fan?
 
So he is using the term "deflate" to mean both taking air out of footballs AND weight loss? Right....do you realize how stupid this sounds, especially to a non-patriots fan?

How many times do I have to say it?

My first post was about Curb Your Enthusiasm and how crazy this sounds.
 
Wrong. McNally was mad at Brady in this exchange with Jastremski. He was clearly using the term to mean "deflating footballs," not weight loss

Jastremski: Can't wait to give your needle this week

McNally: F Tom...make sure the pump is attached to the needle...f'in watermelons coming

Jastremski: So angry

McNally: The only thing that is deflating sun...is his passer rating

I don't doubt Brady's sincerity in going to the refs with the rulebook. What I am talking about is McNally's use of term "deflate."
Why would you assume this means deflating them AFTER they are inspected?
Literally his job was to pump up the balls and deflate them to the correct amount before turning them in to the refs.
 
Why would you assume this means deflating them AFTER they are inspected?
Literally his job was to pump up the balls and deflate them to the correct amount before turning them in to the refs.

There are Patriots fans who have bought Goodell's arguments hook-line-and-sinker. It's sad.
 
There are Patriots fans who have bought Goodell's arguments hook-line-and-sinker. It's sad.


If you only read the executive summary of the report, which is all most reporters read, then you would likely believe the Pats were guilty. Wells did a very good job of parsing comments out of context, adding his own narrative, and framing them. You had two guys/friends whose job it was to handle footballs. Naturally, they are going to use terms related to ball preparation in their conversations. Wells picked out a handful of texts from over 1,000 texts between them over a years time. He took them from various months, removed them from the context of conversation, and listed them in the order he wanted them to be read. This would be highly illegal in any court of law.

Lazy reporters took this misleading information and further misled their audiences. I can certainly understand why many believe it still. I was convinced after reading the summary, but I continued on and read the full 250ish pages and saw the texts in context and also the misleading science report. Only if you are an avid fan are you going to realize just how corrupt that report was.
 
Looks like the league just started the investigation - that’s why we haven’t heard much on it until now. Decision on a penalty this week?

Reiss:
The pace of the league’s investigation into the Patriots’ videotaping of the Cincinnati Bengals’ sideline on Dec. 8 accelerated last week, as sources said interviews with multiple Patriots staffers took place...“Thus, it is hard to imagine the investigation taking much longer. The main question is whether the investigators believe the Patriots’ explanation, so how the interviews are received will ultimately determine the severity of penalty handed down — possibly as early as this week.”
 
Looks like the league just started the investigation - that’s why we haven’t heard much on it until now. Decision on a penalty this week?

Reiss:
The pace of the league’s investigation into the Patriots’ videotaping of the Cincinnati Bengals’ sideline on Dec. 8 accelerated last week, as sources said interviews with multiple Patriots staffers took place...“Thus, it is hard to imagine the investigation taking much longer. The main question is whether the investigators believe the Patriots’ explanation, so how the interviews are received will ultimately determine the severity of penalty handed down — possibly as early as this week.”
Great. We will go into the bye week with some ludicrous penalty hanging over the team
 
Great. We will go into the bye week with some ludicrous penalty hanging over the team

I predict 500K and a third rounder. No suspensions. Hopefully I’m wrong and it’s much lighter.
 
All of the non-Exponent mathematicians concluded the same thing. The difference in 0.3 expected PSI can be accounted for by:

A. The gauge that Anderson said he used, rather than the other gauge that he said he didn’t used but the Wells report chooses to use nonetheless.

or

B. An elaborate scheme to remove an extra 0.3 PSI (an absurdly small amount, certainly different from the 2-3 pounds!!!! leak) from each football. And so coincidentally 0.3 was both the difference in gauges and the amount they nefariously decided to release.

And even if you do believe the other gauge was used (because you are really stupid), the 0.3 difference is well within the margin of error since exact conditions were unknown and testing devices were not precise.

Good post. However, one thing I want to specify that really shuts up accusers if they are at all intellectually honest, is the evidence for why the report was wrong about which gauge was used. This does not even involve challenging the science of EXPONENT--even IF its methodology and numbers are accepted, the report reached the wrong conclusion, based on wrong reasoning about which gauge the refs likely used. To explain:


Though the explanation for why the refs were likely wrong about which gauge was used (the ONLY point, BTW, where their recollection was rejected--once again, they thought they had used the one that turned out to be broken and reported .3 too high on PSI) was opaque in the report, the reasoning seems to have come down to this: when the ball attendants delivered the balls, they were said to be around X PSI, which was in keeping with the gauge other than the ones the refs thought they used. Because it was determined that too much time had passed for the PSI to still reflect the effects of the prepping (which wear off in 15 minutes, whereas 45 minutes passed before refs checked balls) it was determined that the gauge consistent with hte reading of the attendant's number was more likely the ones the refs used. (as the patriot gagues were found to be accurate with their PSI ratings. ). HOWEVER--and this is the absolutely critical part of the argument!--if you go back and read the section of Wells on ball prep, you will see that the attendants said they measured the PSI of EACH ball RIGHT after they prepped it, before going on to the next ball. This means that the numbers the attendants got WOULD reflect an inflated number.

Hence, given that the inflation would have worn off before the balls were tested by the refs, this means that the number the refs got should actually have been lower, NOT THE SAME, as what the attendants told them they had set them at. Since the balls would have deflated by about .3 after the prepping effects wore off, this means that the gauge that showed the same PSI would actually be the one that was broken--i.e. the one that measured about PSI too high. (In other words, if the Pats got a 12.5 reading right after prep, this would really be a 12.2 reading by the time the refs tested it). Thus, the fact that the refs got the same reading SHOULD HAVE led to the conclusion that they had, in fact, used the borken gauge (later found to be broken), which was .3 too high. The report made the EXACT OPPOSITE inference from what it should have--same number means they used the non broken gauge, and thus must have been wrong about which gauge they used.

So, in short--yes, they footballs were underinflated, BUT NOT AS A RESULT OF TAMPERING. If the refs had been aware of the natural deflation after prepping wore off, they would have used the other gauge, and/or added air to each ball.

The whole report mistakenly assumed that the attendants measured the PSI of all the balls only at the end of prepping all of the balls (and with enough time passing for the effects to wear off) , but this was not the case --the report itself shows they measured each ball one at a time before moving on to hte next ball, which is what you would expect someone to do, if you think aobut it.

The reason is this is critical is that EVEN IF one trusts the science of the report, it should sitll have led to the opposite conclusion. exponent made it clear that they were accepting the numbers given to them--they were not checking whether the report's consideraiton of which gauge was likely used, etc. is accurate. Thus, one does not even need to go the route of challenging exponent's science (even if it is true that other respectable methodologies challenged this and got results that would have exonerated the Pats). This one simple oversight is mathematically clear, and leaves any reasonable person realizing that that the report made the wrong assumption about which gauge the refs likely used.
 
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NFL asking Pats for emails and texts in the filming of Bengals coaches backs on the sidelines. This isn't going to end well. What a joke.
 
Curious if the league would attempt to obtain texts/emails from other teams if such a situation was to occur. Seems unlikely they would.

I get the NFL is a private entity and all that, but attempting to obtain emails/texts seems extremely invasive and unnecessary unless the tapes contain information one could not obtain from other sources (A22, for example).
 
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