Penalties being considered for the Pats - UPDATED 1/1/2020

sb1 said:

Based on reports this morning maybe there’s nothing to the report about the penalties and the league has barely started in its investigation- if it has even started at all.

link Updates on NFL's investigation of Patriots' videotaping incident

Maybe they will wait until Super Bowl week to drop a bomb on the team then. Wouldn’t put it past them. If the Pats are eliminated before that then just a quiet fine sometime in the spring...

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They know for 100% fact they can sit on this, let it marinate in the media etc.. and if the Patriots make the SB then they can start leaking updates to this story and cash in on ratings. Then they can carry that story into the dead part of the off-season to fill the news cycle until its time for the NFL draft

Pats documentary guy: I'm almost ready to post this on the website, oh man this is going to be great...

BB: I need you to do us a favor though...



Not.

upstater1 said:

Well--if it's worth anything, the Bills main sports radio station who never stop going on and on about the Patriots cheating, had their regular team reporter on for insight today, and he gave a pretty good rendition of how the whole spygate2 was a nothing story. They kept going at him and asking why and he just said it is so much easier to get any info about the sidelines by looking at either the All-22 or filming it from other areas. He said it wasn't the intent because from up there that high, and especially from behind the backs, they would have difficulty getting info that they could have easily gotten otherwise.

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WGR?

I was a bit worried the tape would show a sequence -zoom sideline to field to scoreboard like the Spygate tape did. That would be very difficult to justify.

Thankfully what we saw on Sunday was nothing like that. Still inexcusable though to even be shooting the sideline for any reason.

The NFL is not going to bury this so don’t expect a drop on Friday at 6 or Christmas Eve. It’ll be on a random Tuesday at noon.

upstater1 said:

I should add that the kind of stuff that's piled up against the Patriots over the years is so laughable, it's like something out of "Curb Your Enthusiasm." Every scandal has had really odd moments to it that only a comedian could make up.

My favorite is how the equipment guys made jokes about losing weight, and they texted "Deflate!" to each other. Given the context of those texts, I believe them 99% that that's what they were referring to. But whoever would have thought that a scandal concocted by a Colts ball boy, with all sorts of lies (D'Qwell Jackson knew it was deflated, the balls were at 10.3 PSI, etc., Brady claimed he never talked to the equipment guys, etc.), would ultimately rest on equipment guys tweeting deflate to each other, and the words deflate didn't even refer to balls!!!!

Larry David couldn't have written it any better.

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They texted " deflate" in May.

They texted " geez Brady wanted them at 13 psi " during the season.

What a bunch of BS that was.

All you people predicting doom should go back and read the threads about how it was inevitable that Kraft would be suspended for the year/forced to sell the team/lose draft picks over that nonsense in Florida.

Tony2046 said:

They texted " deflate" in May.

They texted " geez Brady wanted them at 13 psi " during the season.

What a bunch of BS that was.

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Another interesting theory was that like Rodgers who presented overinflated balls to the refs to test them to see if they would let some air out, Brady had Mcnally present underinflated footballs to them- hence the name "deflator." It was obvious that the refs didn't care about PSI levels at the time. Obviously, under this theory, Brady was not involved in any cheating - it's up to the refs to follow league rules. If Brady got away with the underinflated ball, so be it. One text said the refs pumped the balls to 16 PSI in the Jet game and screwed Brady.

I still won’t be remotely surprised if one day we find out that the two ball guys dreamed up some scheme where they’d hand the balls in at 12.5 (or whatever the lowest legal value was) and then after the refs had their way with them would check them and then if the refs had inflated them above the submitted 12.5 the ball guys would deflate them back to 12.5.

I agree that no deflation whatsoever happened at the AFCCG — the science makes that 100% clear. But I think that’s because the refs left the balls at 12.5 so there was nothing for the ball guys to do.

I know this whole thing is an unpopular view, but it’s how I reconcile the ball dudes’ texts, which I find sketchy as hell, with the fact that the balls were unquestionably not deflated in the AFCCG.

sb1 said:

WGR?

I was a bit worried the tape would show a sequence -zoom sideline to field to scoreboard like the Spygate tape did. That would be very difficult to justify.

Thankfully what we saw on Sunday was nothing like that. Still inexcusable though to even be shooting the sideline for any reason.

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Yes, it was 550. Sal Cappaccio was the reporter saying it's nothing.

Tony2046 said:

They texted " deflate" in May.

They texted " geez Brady wanted them at 13 psi " during the season.

What a bunch of BS that was.

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They also texted "deflate" in November during the Packers game when the equipment guy appeared on the screen holding a jacket for a Patriots player. He was wearing a puffy coat. Within 60 seconds of appearing on the screen (at an away game where the Packers' ballboys control the balls), the Patriots ballboy back in New England texted him, "Deflate, and hand someone that jacket." Clearly, he was referring to the puffy coat.

QuantumMechanic said:

I still won’t be remotely surprised if one day we find out that the two ball guys dreamed up some scheme where they’d hand the balls in at 12.5 (or whatever the lowest legal value was) and then after the refs had their way with them would check them and then if the refs had inflated them above the submitted 12.5 the ball guys would deflate them back to 12.5.

I agree that no deflation whatsoever happened at the AFCCG — the science makes that 100% clear. But I think that’s because the refs left the balls at 12.5 so there was nothing for the ball guys to do.

I know this whole thing is an unpopular view, but it’s how I reconcile the ball dudes’ texts, which I find sketchy as hell, with the fact that the balls were unquestionably not deflated in the AFCCG.

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I just explained why the texts weren't sketchy.

They seemed sketchy, but the context is easy to understand when you match them up with the facts.

Four or five simple things to remember.

1. The May text happened out of season when they weren't deflating balls. The ballboy claimed they were joking about a commercial that referred to losing weight as deflating. Sounds sketchy but...

2. Remember that Brady was playing with a ball inflated to 16 or more PSI. He yelled at the equipment guy. When the equipment guy apprised him that the refs are the ones who inflate the balls, Brady texted, "Then bring the f'in rule book with you and show them the damn thing."

2a. It's conceivable that Brady also advised them to deflate balls at this point BUT -- if this was the moment they started doing it (and the thing about the rule book clearly shows Brady wanted the refs to do it right) -- then the May text about deflating isn't about deflating footballs. After all, it came BEFORE Brady being informed in October (Jets game) that the refs are in charge of inflating balls.

3. The November text was sent within 60 seconds of the equipment guy appearing on TV at a Packers game (where the Packers' ballboy controls the balls),wearing a big puffy coat, and holding a jacket for a Patriots player. The tweet read, "Deflate, and hand someone that jacket." I can't see how anyone reads this as anything other than the fact the guy was looking chunky in a big puffy coat.

4. Finally, the ballboy was a guy getting paid $8 an hour. This guy somehow was interviewed for over 20 hours, in a span of 3 days, by Ex-FBI investigators. He told them this very hard to believe story about deflating as weight loss. And somehow, this criminal mastermind didn't trip up while being interrogated by the best of the best! If so, he missed his calling. He's worth a lot more than $8 an hour.

We’ve seen other accusations and scandals bond them together, so maybe this will light a fire under their butts.

LJRomanoff said:

All you people predicting doom should go back and read the threads about how it was inevitable that Kraft would be suspended for the year/forced to sell the team/lose draft picks over that nonsense in Florida.

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Seemed plausible at the time

QuantumMechanic said:

I still won’t be remotely surprised if one day we find out that the two ball guys dreamed up some scheme where they’d hand the balls in at 12.5 (or whatever the lowest legal value was) and then after the refs had their way with them would check them and then if the refs had inflated them above the submitted 12.5 the ball guys would deflate them back to 12.5.

I agree that no deflation whatsoever happened at the AFCCG — the science makes that 100% clear. But I think that’s because the refs left the balls at 12.5 so there was nothing for the ball guys to do.

I know this whole thing is an unpopular view, but it’s how I reconcile the ball dudes’ texts, which I find sketchy as hell, with the fact that the balls were unquestionably not deflated in the AFCCG.

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My own belief is that the ball boys did it on their own because Tom was so hard on them, particularly McNally, and Brady protected them during deflategate. I don't think the footballs were manually deflated in the AFCCG, but other games McNally took it upon himself to deflate any balls that were 16 PSI, etc. There was a former official wbo said at the time that McNally was always acting suspicious and insisted on getting the footballs 15 mins before the footballs were to be brought on the field, which is much earlier than normal. The official said he looked nervous each time.

After Brady retires, McNally should write a book on what happened. Seriously, he'd get millions....

TommyBrady12 said:

My own belief is that the ball boys did it on their own because Tom was so hard on them, particularly McNally, and Brady protected them during deflategate. I don't think the footballs were manually deflated in the AFCCG, but other games McNally took it upon himself to deflate any balls that were 16 PSI, etc. There was a former official wbo said at the time that McNally was always acting suspicious and always wanted the footballs 15 mins before the footballs were to be brought on the field, which is earlier than normal. The official said he looked nervous every time.

After Brady retires, McNally should write a book on what happened. Seriously, he'd get millions....

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I too think they were deflating footballs except for the AFCCG and I also think it was because of the high PSI inflation from the Jets game. The texts make that clear.

I also think teams around the league knew it and as long as it was to the legal minimum of 12.5 they couldn’t care less.

I just wish Tom didn’t say “read the rule book”. Yes Harbaugh is a whiner and deserved to be mocked for his whining but it was just a pointless taunt...and when your team is known to be deflating footballs it’s going to come back to bite you if you trigger them. Which it did. No question the Ravens alerted the Colts to try and “catch” them as an FU right back to Tom’s comment.

QuantumMechanic said:

I still won’t be remotely surprised if one day we find out that the two ball guys dreamed up some scheme where they’d hand the balls in at 12.5 (or whatever the lowest legal value was) and then after the refs had their way with them would check them and then if the refs had inflated them above the submitted 12.5 the ball guys would deflate them back to 12.5.

I agree that no deflation whatsoever happened at the AFCCG — the science makes that 100% clear. But I think that’s because the refs left the balls at 12.5 so there was nothing for the ball guys to do.

I know this whole thing is an unpopular view, but it’s how I reconcile the ball dudes’ texts, which I find sketchy as hell, with the fact that the balls were unquestionably not deflated in the AFCCG.

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How can you infer THAT from the tweets?
Which tweet(s) give any inference to them deflating the footballs after they were tested?

sb1 said:

I too think they were deflating footballs except for the AFCCG and I also think it was because of the high PSI inflation from the Jets game. The texts make that clear.

I also think teams around the league knew it and as long as it was to the legal minimum of 12.5 they couldn’t care less.

I just wish Tom didn’t say “read the rule book”. Yes Harbaugh is a whiner and deserved to be mocked for his whining but it was just a pointless taunt...and when your team is known to be deflating footballs it’s going to come back to bite you if you trigger them. Which it did. No question the Ravens alerted the Colts to try and “catch” them as an FU right back to Tom’s comment.

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Which texts “make that clear”?
This is totally made up out of nothing. It’s like me texting “your killing me” to someone telling a joke and using that to infer they murdered me.

TommyBrady12 said:

My own belief is that the ball boys did it on their own because Tom was so hard on them, particularly McNally, and Brady protected them during deflategate. I don't think the footballs were manually deflated in the AFCCG, but other games McNally took it upon himself to deflate any balls that were 16 PSI

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Yes, exactly.

sb1 said:

I too think they were deflating footballs except for the AFCCG and I also think it was because of the high PSI inflation from the Jets game. The texts make that clear.

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That's precisely why I think they were doing it. They were pissed about being hosed by the refs and Brady riding their asses and so decided they were going to start bringing balls back to 12.5 if the refs pumped them up.

sb1 said:

I also think teams around the league knew it and as long as it was to the legal minimum of 12.5 they couldn’t care less.

I just wish Tom didn’t say “read the rule book”. Yes Harbaugh is a whiner and deserved to be mocked for his whining but it was just a pointless taunt...and when your team is known to be deflating footballs it’s going to come back to bite you if you trigger them. Which it did. No question the Ravens alerted the Colts to try and “catch” them as an FU right back to Tom’s comment.

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Oh, that's a good point. Yeah -- they either knew or strongly suspected something or why else tell the Colts to look for that specific thing. It's not like the Ratbirds knew about the ideal gas law and were saying to themselves "Ha ha! No one realizes pressure decreases in cold weather so we'll tell the Colts to ask for the balls to be checked and frame NE." Nope, for whatever reason they had to have thought NE was deflating balls.

Ring 6 said:

Which texts “make that clear”?
This is totally made up out of nothing. It’s like me texting “your killing me” to someone telling a joke and using that to infer they murdered me.

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It's not clear, but there's a lot of circumstantial evidence that the McNally was doing something with the balls...not that I believe that Brady knew what he was doing. One ref even reported McNally to the league for suspicious behavior...

https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/17/new-england-patriots-mark-baltz-jim-mcnally-deflategate