NFL has suspended Josh Gordon indefinitely

PatriotsReign said:

Nicotine addiction is possibly the most difficult to overcome. But you can’t lose your job, your house and your self esteem by abusing it

alcoholism destroys people physically, mentally and spiritually. Huge difference. I’m not minimizing, just saying it’s not comparable to drug and alcohol addiction

Click to expand...

As merely one of many former smokers, I would agree with this.

TB_Helmet said:

You kidding me, I'd love to put Gordon up for a few months. He can also smoke as long as he opens a window.

Click to expand...

Few months is not good enough.

You have just made my point.

Drewski said:

LOL

Your world is too binary Triumph. A person can have empathy without being an enabler. In every thread on Flash; going back a couple of years on this site, I have never seen anyone take an enabling position; people who have defended him (I am one) defend him from the position of "he's sick and needs help" or a "its very sad" or "I hope he gets the help he clearly needs" POV. That's hardy enabling self destructive behavior.

The human condition is hardy ever as black and white as you make it out; rather life, and the people which fill it; is and are full of nuance.

Flash has had a number of opportunities to get right. He hasn't. He must now, seemingly once and for all, (rightfully) face the consequences of those decisions; in the form of losing his place in the NFL. What could have been....

Your constant approach to Flash in the numerous threads on him here has been, at best, one of toxic masculinity, alpha-dude-bro-ism, holier than thou, stone throwing.

Maybe it's how "the fan" manifests in you vs me where the difference lies. Maybe its our differing views on civics and society more broadly. I don't know. But I do know that under the helmet and pads, there is a human being; who while blessed with physical talents I could only ever dream to have, and the great benefit of monetizing those talents for a brief period of time, is still a human with human failings.

I see that and feel sadness for the person. You see that and feel your next Barstool Comment Section joke coming on...

As for your closing line, give me a break. That line was silly when it was played on a different sub-forum on this site just as it is here and now. That is and never has been the bar for honest concern.

Click to expand...

Im not going to go through all this and refute every falsehood.

The Gordon enabling here was directly after Gordon quit during the season. I advocated that BB get rid of him and cut Gordon for good. Done. The PF.Com Enablers went ape. Im actually shocked that you were not there.

Rationale being that poor Josh was not emotionally strong enough to be cut by NE and could enter a tail spin for eternity. So, the Pats became a half way house. Gordon thanked the Pats by showing up late for meetings. Feck him.

Where are the thoughts and prayers for AB? All the well wishes for that human being under the helmet and pads. AB is no different than Gordon. AB is addicted to drama and stirring up trouble. Maybe he has a sex addiction. Where is your sympathy for him? I am not a hypocrite. My way applies to everyone. You pick and choose who gets preferential treatment.

TB_Helmet said:

You're telling an addict who's been clean for 30 years how he should feel about the struggles of another addict?

Click to expand...

Soup pan Helmet

My comment was one of congrats and encouragement.

Triumph said:

Im not going to go through all this and refute every falsehood.

The Gordon enabling here was directly after Gordon quit during the season. I advocated that BB get rid of him and cut Gordon for good. Done. The PF.Com Enablers went ape. Im actually shocked that you were not there.

Rationale being that poor Josh was not emotionally strong enough to be cut by NE and could enter a tail spin for eternity. So, the Pats became a half way house. Gordon thanked the Pats by showing up late for meetings. Feck him.

Where are the thoughts and prayers for AB? All the well wishes for that human being under the helmet and pads. AB is no different than Gordon. AB is addicted to drama and stirring up trouble. Maybe he has a sex addiction. Where is your sympathy for him? I am not a hypocrite. My way applies to everyone. You pick and choose who gets preferential treatment.

Click to expand...

Sure, let's compare an alledged sex offender to someone with addiction problems... What the ****!

Le Numéro Douze said:

Sure, let's compare an alledged sex offender to someone with addiction problems... What the ****!

Click to expand...

What of AB?

Brady let him live in his home. Good guy with a problem. Mob rules that toxic masculinity sex problems not OK but drug problems OK.

Heard this morning that aside from PEDs (a 4 game suspension), the non-PED one was for weed? If true, that is total BS. NFL needs to get off their moralistic high horse when they have a scum bag drug addicted owner and several others that frequent prostitutes. Idgaf what these owners do, and the NFL shouldn't either for players on non-performance enhancing drugs or life styles.

Triumph said:

What of AB?

Brady let him live in his home. Good guy with a problem. Mob rules that toxic masculinity sex problems not OK but drug problems OK.

Click to expand...

So sex addiction is why Brown reportedly acted like a complete ass in a court hearing about throwing furniture out a window and continuously going off on Twitter about how everything in his life is the fault of everyone else?

Keyser Söze said:

Yeah I’m an incel because I called you out for your “woke” drivel. I’m surprised you haven’t told anyone your pronoun’s yet.

Click to expand...

Seeing an addict self destruct multiple times in a public/professional setting and feeling empathy for what they are/will ultimately lose, is not being woke. Its called being a human being.

You seem to be an expert on the 4chan jargon. Whats the pronoun of the day for a white, mid thirties, married, father of two, Non Christian male? I assume its still he/him, but I'll wait for your SME to confirm.

Drewski said:

As merely one of many former smokers, I would agree with this.

Click to expand...

Everyone is different, but for me, quitting smoking was a good old-fashioned walk in the park compared to some of the other battles. Once I went a week without cigarettes, I realized how stupid I had been for not doing it much sooner. It’s basically a handful of days feeling edgy and not being able to sleep.

Edit: not that I mean to discredit your point.

Triumph said:

Im not going to go through all this and refute every falsehood.

The Gordon enabling here was directly after Gordon quit during the season. I advocated that BB get rid of him and cut Gordon for good. Done. The PF.Com Enablers went ape. Im actually shocked that you were not there.

Rationale being that poor Josh was not emotionally strong enough to be cut by NE and could enter a tail spin for eternity. So, the Pats became a half way house. Gordon thanked the Pats by showing up late for meetings. Feck him.

Where are the thoughts and prayers for AB? All the well wishes for that human being under the helmet and pads. AB is no different than Gordon. AB is addicted to drama and stirring up trouble. Maybe he has a sex addiction. Where is your sympathy for him? I am not a hypocrite. My way applies to everyone. You pick and choose who gets preferential treatment.

Click to expand...

there is no Gordon enabling here......we have zero effect on the pro athletes we discuss

the fact that you are unable to differentiate between AB and Gordon is your problem, not anyone elses

Triumph said:

What of AB?

Brady let him live in his home. Good guy with a problem. Mob rules that toxic masculinity sex problems not OK but drug problems OK.

Click to expand...

it is more likely proof of how much of his soul Brady would sell for another win.......very competitive is the only positive thing to say about that

Some are pretty upset today, I wonder why. I look around and it looks like a beautiful day that will just get better.

Triumph said:

Im not going to go through all this and refute every falsehood..

Click to expand...

Because of ability or desire?

Triumph said:

The Gordon enabling here was directly after Gordon quit during the season. I advocated that BB get rid of him and cut Gordon for good. Done. The PF.Com Enablers went ape. Im actually shocked that you were not there..

Click to expand...

Again, you're missing nuance Triumph. While I personally wasn't in the group asking "WTF BB, why'd you cut him? We have no depth at position!!" crowd...at the time it was fair question. There were few reports on the "why" with some mention of being late to meetings. I think a person can, with limited information available, say "WTF", then, at a later date, when more information comes out, go "ohhhhh, I see.....".

Triumph said:

Rationale being that poor Josh was not emotionally strong enough to be cut by NE and could enter a tail spin for eternity. So, the Pats became a half way house. Gordon thanked the Pats by showing up late for meetings. Feck him.

Click to expand...

He is an adult in a world where adults face consequences for their actions. I have no issue, knowing what we know now, that whatever got him cut from the Pats was part of what manifested in his latest ouster from the league; rightfully.

Triumph said:

Where are the thoughts and prayers for AB? All the well wishes for that human being under the helmet and pads. AB is no different than Gordon. AB is addicted to drama and stirring up trouble. Maybe he has a sex addiction. Where is your sympathy for him? I am not a hypocrite. My way applies to everyone. You pick and choose who gets preferential treatment.

Click to expand...

I don't pray, so I got nothing to add there. However, again nuance. Flash is an addict whose actions have only hurt him; he hasn't killed anyone, beat anyone up, stole from anyone, not payed someone for services rendered, potentially sexually assaulted anyone. The only "ding" I have heard about him (beyond the drug problems and his DUI) is late child support payments.

AB is seemingly parts of many of those things. And there in lies the difference in my empathy. I feel bad for Flash because he can't/won't fight his demons and salvage his abilities. AB is a completely different boat. He has hurt other people through his actions. That's where my differing views stem from.

For a better, visual example of what I am getting at about nuance, here's Ron White from years ago, speaking in the context of "crazy people". Language warning.

supafly said:

Everyone is different, but for me, quitting smoking was a good old-fashioned walk in the park compared to some of the other battles. Once I went a week without cigarettes, I realized how stupid I had been for not doing it much sooner. It’s basically a handful of days feeling edgy and not being able to sleep.

Edit: not that I mean to discredit your point.

Click to expand...

Agreed. The only thing that made it hard was the will/desire to actually do it. That isn't to say nicotine doesn't have serious power. But as PR said, its nothing like "willing" to destroy your life over something like booze/drugs.

venecol said:

Heard this morning that aside from PEDs (a 4 game suspension), the non-PED one was for weed? If true, that is total BS. NFL needs to get off their moralistic high horse when they have a scum bag drug addicted owner and several others that frequent prostitutes. Idgaf what these owners do, and the NFL shouldn't either for players on non-performance enhancing drugs or life styles.

Click to expand...

Their policy on THC is legit bananaland in a vacuum, and even crazier when you put it in the context of PEDs. THC bad, opioids and Toradol, good. (and before anyone asks, I am not saying THC has the same abilities as a medicine as opioids and Toradol do, but it has a fraction of the danger/addictive nature with some of the medicinal qualities.)

I shared in a different thread on the subject some time ago the threshold in the CBA for THC is 20ng/ml. That is half of what the Feds say urine analysis should be (50ng/ml). When you factor in the time it takes the body to excrete all the THC-COOH from your body (versus other drugs), its even a dumber threshold to put in place. Further, their thresholds for PEDs (roids) is something like 4 times higher than the Olympics.

As I said in the MLB testing thread, the NFL is going to hold THC testing as a negotiating piece for the next CBA as a business position, but they also trial balloon these types of things with their fan base. Living in the South (and not even the deep south) I can tell you there are quite a few people who are both Football Super fans and think THC consumption is about as bad a thing you could do.

I think it’s for the best that JG be done with football. Substance abuse issues are serious and the stress of an NFL season seems to be to much for him to bear by December.

PatriotsReign said:

Nicotine addiction is possibly the most difficult to overcome. But you can’t lose your job, your house and your self esteem by abusing it

alcoholism destroys people physically, mentally and spiritually. Huge difference. I’m not minimizing, just saying it’s not comparable to drug and alcohol addiction

Click to expand...

That’s the thing about drugs, the spectrum of dependence is incredibly large and complicated, and really varies from person to person.

I’ve never struggled with alcohol, or other heavy drugs of abuse (recreational amphetamine, cocaine, heroin/morphine/pharmaceutical opiates, benzodiazepines, etc). Nor have I struggled with nicotine because for whatever reason I’m extremely sensitive to it - it makes me lightheaded and dizzy in very small quantities.

My two drugs of choice over the years have been marijuana and Kratom. The weed was initially great, but changed after I developed depression and started to make me anxious, overly introspective, and a bit existential, discontented and disillusioned over longer periods of time. But it never caused any considerable physical dependence.

Kratom has been much better for my mood. It’s the best drug I’ve ever found for addressing all elements of my depression (pharmaceutical or otherwise) without many mood related side effects. But it’s much more physically heavy and is something I need to manage (in terms of dose quantity and frequency) very closely, because in higher doses it mimics the effects of opiates. From what I understand people use Kratom in quantities of 20-30g per day to get off of heavier opiates; I take 5-7g per day, and find it’s more of an energizing mood lift at lower doses, rather than a sedating PK. The pharmacology is a bit complicated but it’s a great AD at lower doses IME.

Neither of these drugs will cause you to spiral, and destroy your spirit, body and mind in the same way other drugs will. But they come with their own set of effects, challenges, and benefits.

So your point about the complexity and grey-area in this discussion of drug use and impact is well received, Reign.

I'm addicted to Metformin, Verapamil,Lisinopril and Furosemide...that's right, I'm an old pr!ck.

Joker said:

I'm addicted to Metformin, Verapamil,Lisinopril and Furosemide...that's right, I'm an old pr!ck.

Click to expand...

Take care of that ticker Joker!