Poor drafting now biting the Patriots in the butt?

JackBauer said:

I'll see your point re: Michel, but including Wynn to support your "what could have been" argument seems wildly off the mark, particularly given what we've seen from the overall line play this year.

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Would you rather have DJ Moore, Calvin Ridley or Wynn? Not to mention the NFL MVP who made a mockery of our great defense

How great has Wynn been...even when healthy?

NG Pats Fan said:

“Nah dude”

Past your bedtime kid!

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Definitely past my daughter’s bedtime!

NG Pats Fan said:

Would you rather have DJ Moore, Calvin Ridley or Wynn? Not to mention the NFL MVP who made a mockery of our great defense

How great has Wynn been...even when healthy?

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I am interested though, would you have drafted Lamar Jackson last year over Sony?

It means the Lamar sits last year while we win a Super Bowl, sits this year (and you have to put up with calls for Brady to sit given the current state of the offense), and who knows what happens next year.

Or alternatively, if we had drafted Jackson, what happens during his first four years (or would you trade last years Super Bowl for having Jackson on the team now?) Honest question, since this could be something we discuss for the next decade.

TB_Helmet said:

Definitely past my daughter’s bedtime!

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Lol,

Bottom line is OP is partially correct, the 2017-2019 turned out horrendous for us on the offensive side of the ball where we now have maybe the worst offense in the NFL which is causing us to spoil an ATG defense.

4 all pro/MVP caliber offensive players dropped to us in the 2018 first round. We went 0-4 while targeting offense.

Brady is leaving after this year. How do you think we do in the future?

TB_Helmet said:

I am interested though, would you have drafted Lamar Jackson last year over Sony?

It means the Lamar sits last year while we win a Super Bowl, sits this year (and you have to put up with calls for Brady to sit given the current state of the offense), and who knows what happens next year.

Or alternatively, if we had drafted Jackson, what happens during his first four years? Honest question, since this could be something we discuss for the next decade.

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Absolutely. QB is most important position. We get a prime Lamar Jackson paired with B.B./his successor for 10 years....I think that nets us 1-2 Super Bowls and a trip to playoffs every year.

Had Jackson been on the bench this year, he would have taken over for Brady full time next year when Brady left.

I think we win last years super bowl regardless of Sony. We had an amazing o line opening up huge holes. Even slow plodding Sony looked decent with that o line!

NG Pats Fan said:

Absolutely. QB is most important position. We get a prime Lamar Jackson paired with B.B. for 10 years....I think that nets us 1-2 Super Bowls and a trip to playoffs every year.

Had Jackson been on the bench this year, he would have taken over for Brady full time next year when Brady left.

I think we win last years super bowl regardless of Sony. We had an amazing o line opening up huge holes. Even slow plodding Sony looked decent with that o line!

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So you draft LJ, he sits for two years, and then you make no effort to resign Brady this offseason? Just playing it out.

I agree that there’s a decent chance we still win last year without Sony, but obviously if we had drafted LJ and started him immediately then that’s not happening.

ETA I think Brady is back next year but understand people who have different opinions.

TB_Helmet said:

So you draft LJ, he sits for two years, and then you make no effort to resign Brady this offseason? Just playing it out.

I agree that there’s a decent chance we still win last year without Sony, but obviously if we had drafted LJ and started him immediately then that’s not happening.

ETA I think Brady is back next year but understand people who have different opinions.

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Would love for the GOAT to come back, but I don’t see it happening. Sad

Stidham is garbage...finding a franchise QB is number 1 priority this offseason imo

If the goat does come back, I’d make TE number 1 priority as well as still looking at QB pool

NG Pats Fan said:

Would love for the GOAT to come back, but I don’t see it happening. Sad

Stidham is garbage...finding a franchise QB is number 1 priority this offseason imo

If the goat does come back, I’d make TE number 1 priority as well as still looking at QB pool

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All I’m saying is that we could have drafted LJ and he’s a great QB but there’s no guarantee he has success here, or that he wins more than Brady will here (this year / future years). And there’s a decent to good chance Brady comes back.

What about this: let’s say we had drafted LJ and he sits two years and this offseason Brady wants to come back. What do you do?

I know these are hypotheticals but your contention in this thread is “we should have drafted player xyz over who we actually drafted” so I’m just trying to walk through the repercussions of what would have happened if we did. Another example, does DJ metcalf have success here? Seems like a one trick pony, does he do better than Dorsett?

IcyPatriot said:

Hindsight is so easy ...
If only we had drafted a real WR instead of FA Julian Edelman
If only we had drafted a stud CB instead of Malcolm Butler.
If only we had drafted a stud C instead of FA David Andrews.
Passed on stud QB's to draft Tom Brady
So many stud WR's ... instead we grab the lowly David Givens.


Could go on and on and on .... and on again.

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You could, but none of that makes any point. Getting a player lower in the draft, as a UDFA, via trade or via regular free agency doesn't mean that you shouldn't have targeted a position early, particularly since it's not all necessarily tied to the specific draft year. Furthermore:

Edelman, for example, was a flier pick taken at the end of the draft, when the team already had Moss and Welker.
The team didn't draft Butler.
Givens was drafted in the same year that the team drafted Branch
2000 was a year without a "stud" QB prospect
The team didn't draft Andrews
etc...

So your examples aren't holding weight on this.



And, seriously, you know that this board talks draft almost all year round, so calling this stuff hindsight is inaccurate at best.

Our scouting team has been awful as of late.

It seems like we are inept to draft WRs and make them stars, we have to bring in killers from other teams.

Welker, Moss. And we didn’t draft them.

Then we bring in bums that don’t live up to the hype, it’s not all about character, but how hungry the guys are to become successful.

Outside of Edelman I don’t remember the last time we picked a decent WR.
Maybe BB and scouting suck at finding talent at that position.

Whenever I see some people point fingers at rookies or players drafted a year ago I wish I knew what they were thinking of e.g. Trey Flowers in his second year. Right before he came up big in the SB with sacking Ryan out of FG range. I doubt many would have particularly kind words to say about him.

Give players time to develop. Personally I don't think it is fair to evaluate anyone before year 3. The rookie season is for most like a shock in terms of speed and how much they have to learn, things start to slow down in the second year and the players can start working on actual improvement and not just catching up. Year 3 is when it all should come together.

Some **** drafts for sure. Oh boy...oh and giving Jimmy away for a 2!!! Lol

luuked said:

Whenever I see some people point fingers at rookies or players drafted a year ago I wish I knew what they were thinking of e.g. Trey Flowers in his second year. Right before he came up big in the SB with sacking Ryan out of FG range. I doubt many would have particularly kind words to say about him.

Give players time to develop. Personally I don't think it is fair to evaluate anyone before year 3. The rookie season is for most like a shock in terms of speed and how much they have to learn, things start to slow down in the second year and the players can start working on actual improvement and not just catching up. Year 3 is when it all should come together.

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Not just Flowers. There are other key SB champs that were “busts” like Vereen & James White.

I know others might see it differently, but if you draft someone who plays a key role in winning a SB, it was a good pick. We are very spoiled here. Winning a SB is a once in a lifetime thing for most franchises. They’d do anything to get that one trophy. For me, that means Stork & Mitchell were VG picks. It also means I like the Sony pick. Doesn’t mean I think it’s ideal for players to not enjoy sustained excellence (too early to say in Sony’s case imo). Just that SB > everything else.

Gronkowski123 said:

Some **** drafts for sure. Oh boy...oh and giving Jimmy away for a 2!!! Lol

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He wasn't going to sign here anyway and you're not going to pay your backup starter money to ride the bench.

I don't know why this is so hard for some people to understand.

203Pat said:

Russell Wilson, Steve Young, Frank Tarkenton? Cam Newton was also an NFL MVP and led his team to a Super Bowl.

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You keep comparing Wilson to Jackson. They aren't the same kind of qb, one is a throwing qb who can run, the other is a running back who can throw. They are not the same kind of player. Jackson may eventually become more like Wilson but as of now they aren't. You seem fixated on Wilson as a comparison, they are different.

archstanton543 said:

He wasn't going to sign here anyway and you're not going to pay your backup starter money to ride the bench.

I don't know why this is so hard for some people to understand.

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And you can repeat the fact that it wasn't just a 2nd but for all intends and purposes it also included Hoyer (who knew the system and was a perfect backup QB + about 6-7M in saved cap space by eating his contract over the next 2 years.

Hoyer is making this year with the Colts more money than he made with the Pats in 6 total seasons.

It sucks that the timing with Brady/JG didn't work out better but there isn't much you can do about that.

Belichick’s drafting the past 5 seasons has been poor. You’re really not being objective if you say otherwise.

Keyser Söze said:

Belichick’s drafting the past 5 seasons has been poor. You’re really not being objective if you say otherwise.

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They've also been picking at the bottom of the draft for the last 5 years since they've been to three Super Bowls and 5 AFCCG's.

The other difficulty for the Patriots and their drafting is the player has to beat out another player. You could draft the second best qb in the league, if the best qb plays for your team, he isn't going to start or play very much, unless there is an injury. A rookie DB has to come out and be good enough to beat out the other. Harris isn't playing right now because the Patriots don't think he is better than the current alternatives. JoeJuan isn't playing because he can't beat out the DB's in front of him. He might well be a starter for every other team in the league but he isn't good enough to beat out the veterans.

You couple that with the extremely short average career for most NFL players and you start to see the issue. Having a great team year in and year out makes it very difficult to succeed in the draft. Couple that with the NFL taking away picks from the Pats, for issues that any other team would have gotten a slap on the wrist for, and you start to see the difficulties.

moosekill said:

You couple that with the extremely short average career for most NFL players and you start to see the issue. Having a great team year in and year out makes it very difficult to succeed in the draft. Couple that with the NFL taking away picks from the Pats, for issues that any other team would have gotten a slap on the wrist for, and you start to see the difficulties.

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But...the player they didn't get with the Spygate pick they took away would more than likely be retired by now...and the Pats won the Super Bowl the year the Brady suspension for Deflategate happened. The first round pick that year given the average length of an NFL career would likely be coming to an end or he would be at the end of his rookie contract and perhaps be looking to move on.

All things considered, I think the Pats weathered both of those hits as best as any team could.