Poor drafting now biting the Patriots in the butt?

IcyPatriot said:

Speculation is not facts ... and maybe they could have.
All I am hearing from detractors is speculation of who could have done what.
Sony performed on the highest stage ... that is a fact.
He had a decent year 2018 ... that also is a fact.
Fans have a right to be disappointed ... but bust does not apply.

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Yeah I know and Aaron Donald couldn’t have done what Malcom Brown did last year. Just no way to know...*eye roll*

IcyPatriot said:

He had a decent year 2018 ... that also is a fact..

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No, that's not a fact.

Deus Irae said:

No, that's not a fact.

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14th in the NFL based on his stats ... puts him in upper half.

15th on this page:
2018 NFL Player Rushing Stats | ESPN

11th here:
National Football League Stats - by Player Category | NFL.com

WR in particular is a pain in the ass. I get not wanting to pay 15-20+M per. I get that & agree for the most part.

That said you either have to draft/develop prospects or really hit on some trades like we've done in the past.

One of the biggest issues is gaining 12's trust. Our system is difficult but we're hardly the only one's running it. Hardly the only team running option routes. It's being able to see what Brady sees & adjusting in game(s) that is the bigger hurdle for guys coming in.

1)We need a flex/move TE in the worst way. We never replaced Hernandez, prepared for life after Gronk when there have been so many good ones available. Again this is a position you can shop around for. Look at all the good TEs now & years past. All after RD1.

2)Slot options. Again there's no shortage of these prospects around. You don't have to wait 3+ seconds for them to get open. Move the chains. Matchup problems. We all know the list keeps going.

It's not that I don't like what a Harry brings for example. It just seems besides 11 we've had no one to fill that role unless you want to count White which reinforces the point even more imo.

Tough to criticize Bill w the results we've had. I'm not bashing him at all. I think he'll be the first to admit you can always improve, esp in areas that have been obvious weak points.

IcyPatriot said:

14th in the NFL based on his stats ... puts him in upper half.

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Are you really going to claim that the numbers are all that matter?


He was 29th in yards per attempt. So you might want to try another angle.

Deus Irae said:

Are you really going to claim that the numbers are all that matter?


He was 29th in yards per attempt. So you might want to try another angle.

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NFL is a summation of his production in all areas ...
Like I said previously ... opinion of disappointed is to each their own.
But his stats in 2018 are not one of a bust.
He has injury issues this year if his trend is down in 2020 and 2021 then we'll see his true label.

Yep, hard to defend their performance these past twenty years. Can’t understand why Kraft keeps these guys aroun?

very good informative post...and yes I would say Poor drafting OVERALL has come back to bite us in a lot of ways ....This year is one of BB worst drafts

VJCPatriot said:

I'm going to go over the Patriots drafts over the past 5 years and state what players are still with the Patriots and in an active role.

2019 draft class 10 picks
WR N'Keal Harry, DE Chase Winowich, P Bailey, QB Stidham. Active.
CB Joejuan Williams, RB Harris, OL Froholdt. Inactive/IR.

2018 draft class 9 picks
OL Isaiah Wynn, RB Sony Michel, LB Bentley, TE Izzo

2017 draft class 4 picks
DL Deatrich Wise

2016 draft class 9 picks
OL Joe Thuney, OL Ted Karras, LB Elandon Roberts

2015 draft class 12 picks
OL Shaq Mason, LS Joe Cardona

2014 draft class 9 picks
RB James White

Looking back, the draft years of 2017, 2015, and 2014 look especially bare as the Patriots were 1/4, 2/12, and 1/9 respectively in drafting players who could even stick to the roster.

2019 class. The Patriots already have made some notable misses in terms of WR. Harry has not looked good, but he's a rookie coming off injury. Joejuan Williams is essentially a healthy scratch or DNP each game, and Harris is on IR.

2018 class. Do we really need to go over Chubb vs Michel. This issue is only so agonizing because Michel is having his worst year while Chubb is among the league leaders. It painfully brings to mind Giannis Antetokounmpo vs Kelly Olynyk draft decision by the Celtics.

The Pats have always managed to do more with less. But the cupboards look extremely bare right now on offense. We never got a bona fide tight end replacement, and Izzo is not the answer there. Our WRs outside of Edelman, whom we drafted 10 years ago have no clue how to properly get open and run the offense.

The Pats are particularly adept at trading for players to patch holes, but this year seems to have been the rare miss, Sanu for a 2nd rounder does not remind us of Welker for the same bounty. Who pays the price, Tom Brady, our offense, and our hopes of playoff advancement.

We are now finally paying the price for poor drafting over the past 5 years. Our rate of success was very low from 2017-2014. I count us only hitting on 1 pick per draft. Hmm does a long snapper count? I guess they do, so that's 2 in 2015.

And the past 2 years the players we picked up look nothing special. In fact one can argue that the punter was the best pick of the lot, which means you're in serious trouble.

EDIT: I was wrong Jordan Richards is finally out. What a horrible 2nd round reach he was.
Added Ted Karras and Elandon Roberts to 2016 class. They are only 2nd stringers but provide depth. Unfortunately if they are called upon to start, then we're in trouble.
Added LS Joe Cardona to 2015 class.

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2018 NFL draft

1 23 New England Patriots Isaiah Wynn OT Georgia
1 24 Carolina Panthers D. J. Moore WR Maryland
1 25 Baltimore Ravens Hayden Hurst TE South Carolina
1 26 Atlanta Falcons Calvin Ridley WR Alabama
1 27 Seattle Seahawks Rashaad Penny RB San Diego State
1 28 Pittsburgh Steelers Terrell Edmunds S Virginia Tech
1 29 Jacksonville Jaguars Taven Bryan DT Florida
1 30 Minnesota Vikings Mike Hughes CB UCF
1 31 New England Patriots Sony Michel RB Georgia
1 32 Baltimore Ravens Lamar Jackson QB Louisville
2 33 Cleveland Browns Austin Corbett OT Nevada
2 34 New York Giants Will Hernandez G UTEP
2 35 Cleveland Browns Nick Chubb RB Georgia


2 picks with a chance at 4 studs. We missed on all 4. No excuses.

Imagine pairing up Lamar Jackson with DJ Moore?

NG Pats Fan said:

2018 NFL draft

1 23 New England Patriots Isaiah Wynn OT Georgia
1 24 Carolina Panthers D. J. Moore WR Maryland
1 25 Baltimore Ravens Hayden Hurst TE South Carolina
1 26 Atlanta Falcons Calvin Ridley WR Alabama
1 27 Seattle Seahawks Rashaad Penny RB San Diego State
1 28 Pittsburgh Steelers Terrell Edmunds S Virginia Tech
1 29 Jacksonville Jaguars Taven Bryan DT Florida
1 30 Minnesota Vikings Mike Hughes CB UCF
1 31 New England Patriots Sony Michel RB Georgia
1 32 Baltimore Ravens Lamar Jackson QB Louisville
2 33 Cleveland Browns Austin Corbett OT Nevada
2 34 New York Giants Will Hernandez G UTEP
2 35 Cleveland Browns Nick Chubb RB Georgia


2 picks with a chance at 4 studs. We missed on all 4. No excuses.

Imagine pairing up Lamar Jackson with DJ Moore?

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I would have run to the podium for Jackson & Wynn but loved Moore too. He was WR2 for me just missing a 1st Rd grade.

He's put up great #'s w bad QB's. Always a biggie for me. Only 22 I believe. Been a stud since day one.

Love Tate too. He definitely has what it takes & glad to see him doing well.

BaconGrundleCandy said:

I would have run to the podium for Jackson & Wynn but loved Moore too. He was WR2 for me just missing a 1st Rd grade.

He's put up great #'s w bad QB's. Always a biggie for me. Only 22 I believe. Been a stud since day one.

Love Tate too. He definitely has what it takes & glad to see him doing well.

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What I would give for bengal WRs

Green
Boyd
Tate

Ruined by bad QBs

Hindsight is so easy ...
If only we had drafted a real WR instead of FA Julian Edelman
If only we had drafted a stud CB instead of Malcolm Butler.
If only we had drafted a stud C instead of FA David Andrews.
Passed on stud QB's to draft Tom Brady
So many stud WR's ... instead we grab the lowly David Givens.


Could go on and on and on .... and on again.

NG Pats Fan said:

What I would give for bengal WRs

Green
Boyd
Tate

Ruined by bad QBs

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This post is classic. Everyone should save it. The team that is one of the worse in the league has the best receivers but bad QBs. If we only had good receivers with Brady. Imagine the result!!! We might win 6 Super Bowls with that combination.

People live in the future. Almost wanting what they do not have instead of appreciating what has happened. We missed this guy in the draft, or that guy. Imagine if we had the best left tackle, and the best receiver, and the best tight end, and the best QB - just imagine that - we might win our division 17 out or the last 20 years. Wouldn't that be amazing????

One-If-By-Sea said:

This post is classic. Everyone should save it. The team that is one of the worse in the league has the best receivers but bad QBs. If we only had good receivers with Brady. Imagine the result!!! We might win 6 Super Bowls with that combination.

People live in the future. Almost wanting what they do not have instead of appreciating what has happened. We missed this guy in the draft, or that guy. Imagine if we had the best left tackle, and the best receiver, and the best tight end, and the best QB - just imagine that - we might win our division 17 out or the last 20 years. Wouldn't that be amazing????

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Forget the past let’s talk about right now. We gave our 42 year old declining qb the worst group of weapons in the NFL

Would you rather have our current crop or the bengals WR core?

Yes. Every time the Patriots lose 2 games in a row, poor drafting is biting them in the butt, and some jackwagon is smarter than everybody in 1 PP.
@NG Pats Fan, you notice that the Pats focused a lot on defense and some on running back recently? If you want to complain, maybe that's as good a target as "worst group of weapons" blah blah blah. I'm sorry, I am taking Jules. I am accepting that other receivers, particularly rooks/2nd year (new to system) aren't likely to impress, no matter who is drafted, in this system. I'm going to add we historically address receiver (though not tight end) more often in FA, and when we really hit on a receiver pick it's as likely as not late in the draft.

Reasons? I dunno, I'm not smart like the draftniks here, but I think if you answer the question "Is it hard or easy to run the Pats system as a receiver?" a lot of impressive names whom we've added over the years say "hard."

One more point: of the cash to pay for wideouts, a ton of it is sitting there in AB #metoo jail. I don't know when the cap hits fall. I also don't know when the cutoff date is for the cavalry to ride over the hill, if there's anybody left out there... but if there's an available dollars issue, the fewer weeks you pay it the better I reckon. That last part is somewhat wishful thinking.

It comes down to this: Demaryius Thomas, Josh Gordon, and Antonio Brown have all been here this year, and for various reasons, aren't. AB in particular seems to have blindsided everybody. We're into him for 5.75 million cap dollars as I understand it. Though not a receiver, michael Bennett's another 3.6 million. Gronk's 2 million, as is Adrian Klayborn. 4 other players are over or just barely under a mill this year.
New England Patriots 2019 Salary Cap

You can't keep rolling the dice and magically always still have money left over, and sometimes it's a down year.

Now if it's all about complaining about the draft, where we've drafted on average 1 guy per year described as WR in your program, usually in a late round, I think the "poor drafting" is basically a function of how you usually get receivers.

All told, we appear to have $5.9 mill cap space, total. Peaking at that page, I'm surprised at how little they've ended up paying for our by-the-hour kickers... but I digress.

I don't know whether there's "easy money" to be moved around, or whether there are a ton of available weapons just waiting for a chance to play for us, having turned down offers everywhere else to play in NE. It looks to me like we've spent to the cap, we fill the WR slot more often through FA, we're emphasizing defense right now (is the value of those weapons higher or lower with Brady declining? Is it smarter or stupider to be ready with a formidable defense? Weighty questions, but certainly not answered automatically with a chant of "give Brady weapons")

I'm really not a smart football guy. It just seems like the real root of the complaint is, as Stephen Wright put it, "You can't have everything. Where would you put it?"

I'd love to win another 13-3 Super Bowl. And I think on the next SI cover, TFB would still pose with that 7th ring and a big-azz grin.

Now that said... if this weaponlessness has Brady looking around next year, then that's what happens. Those last couple rings were worth it, until Jimmy G wins his 3rd, and he's still working on his first.

Sic transit Buddy... one day we'll have to sort out the Patriots fans from the Brady fans. (Tickets will be a deal though )

NG Pats Fan said:

Forget the past let’s talk about right now. We gave our 42 year old declining qb the worst group of weapons in the NFL

Would you rather have our current crop or the bengals WR core?

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Classic original post and classic response. Would I rather have a 10-3 record or a 1-12 record? Let's miss the forest for the trees? Let's find details that ignore the big picture? How about highlighting a strength while ignoring the overall performance? Classic miss, but you will be back over and over with regrets and anxiety.

One-If-By-Sea said:

Classic original post and classic response. Would I rather have a 10-3 record or a 1-12 record? Let's miss the forest for the trees? Let's find details that ignore the big picture? How about highlighting a strength while ignoring the overall performance? Classic miss, but you will be back over and over with regrets and anxiety.

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We are 10-3 because of a historically weak schedule first 8 games plus we have the GOAT Coach and QB, an ATG defense led by home run DEFENSIVE draft picks 2009-2013 ...the bengals have the worst coach and worst qb in the nfl.

If Brady had Boyd, green and Tate...we would have gone 3-0 vs Houston KC and Baltimore


After Brady leaves...watch what happens to this team with the way we’ve drafted recently and ruined the cap. Barring getting very lucky and landing a Franchise QB late in first round, we are in big trouble when our elite defenders begin to age and Brady’s gone

NG Pats Fan said:

Forget the past let’s talk about right now. We gave our 42 year old declining qb the worst group of weapons in the NFL

Would you rather have our current crop or the bengals WR core?

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Nah dude, he got you. You totally missed his point, which is probably the best post on this thread. Keep wishing we were more like the Bengals though...

TB_Helmet said:

Nah dude, he got you. You totally missed his point, which is probably the best post on this thread. Keep wishing we were more like the Bengals though...

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“Nah dude”

Past your bedtime kid!