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How Can the Pats Stop the Ravens?


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As I said above, the offenses that are the best of all time have been completely embarrassed in the playoffs, usually by the Patriots (2001 and later). None of them has won a title.

Sorry, you beat me to it.
 
Sorry, you beat me to it.

It's OK. I think we should keep repeating this to ourselves and anyone else who will listen.

01 Rams, 04 Colts, 07 Pats, 13 Broncos, 16 Falcons, 18 Chiefs. All lost in horrific fashion.
 
As I said above, the offenses that are the best of all time have been completely embarrassed in the playoffs, usually by the Patriots (2001 and later). None of them has won a title.
But how many of them had DOMINANT rushing attacks?
 
But how many of them had DOMINANT rushing attacks?

Probably just the Rams (Marshall Faulk), but all of those teams were 'revolutionizing football' at the time until they got beat.

After I read Ken's post in this thread, I wasn't worried anymore. You know who is the most suited of any person in history to be able to draw up a game plan to beat an offense that was popular in the 1940's? Bill MFin Belichick.

Just keep doing whatever we've been doing to ensure that the defense stays healthy.
 
Probably just the Rams (Marshall Faulk), but all of those teams were 'revolutionizing football' at the time until they got beat.

After I read Ken's post in this thread, I wasn't worried anymore. You know who is the most suited of any person in history to be able to draw up a game plan to beat an offense that was popular in the 1940's? Bill MFin Belichick.

Just keep doing whatever we've been doing to ensure that the defense stays healthy.
I’m with you bud.
 
I have no problem letting the chiefs do it in the divisional
 
When I posted back on page 4 of this thread, I hoped it would ignite a discussion of ACTUAL ways that the Pats could attack the very effective Ravens offense. Instead it ignited a 15 pages of how the Pats are hated, disrespected, or spoken ill of on sports radio. What the F*CK. Who cares what people thing before Thanksgiving. Last year at this time we had 3 losses (all to mediocre teams) and had 2 more coming (also against mediocre teams).....and how did our season end up.

So lets stop whining and start talking football, which was why this thread was started.

So me start again with answering the question of why don't we simply beat the sh!t out of the QB every time he runs an option play. It seems like the logical thing to do. It was what I recommended many times myself when we talked about how to defend the RPO offenses that are popping up all over the place.

Back when option offenses like the triple option or Veer option were prevalent it was a lot easier to punish the QB because the mesh happened close to the LOS, while here it's happening 5-7 yds behind the LOS and usually the QB decision happens before the defense can attack him.

Then we come to the problem of numbers - We'd usually assign 2 men the run option, and one guy for the QB, and another for the pitch. There has been much talk about the way to solve the Ravens' offense is simply to be really disciplined. But here's the problem with that at the NFL level. The athletic ability of your athlete might not be equal, and when it isn't, you can be as disciplined as you want, and STILL not be able to stop this offense.

It's not like any of the coaching staffs of the teams the Ravens have beaten by 30 points in their run didn't know enough about football to defend what the Ravens were doing ON PAPER. Remember they know a LOT more about what exactly the Ravens are doing than we do and they have all reached the pinnacle of their professions. So they are well versed in X's and O's. Yet they STILL lost by 30+. So it isn't going to be as simple as "Bill will find a way"

I would love if the PP2 or others of the more internet savvy guys would put together as series of clips that showcase the Ravens offense so we (or at least I) could get a better sense of what they are doing and help me participate in this thread better.

But from what I HAVE seen, I think we are going to need to get bigger up front. So I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of 8 man front alignments. And you can morph into a 6man front from an odd alignment by slanting your DL in one direction or another at the snap.

The key to doing that is finding an actual formation or motion key in their offense. Slanting the DL is not something you see much these days in the NFL and could be just the kind of thing a guy like BB came up with much like the 6-1 he unvieled in the Superbowl.

BTW- there are 2 ways you can move your DL You can have them move from the man they are over to the next one in a flatter move, or you can move them from their man they are over to the next gap. The latter way would be used to create penetration as well as a direction advantage. Slants often confuse blocking assignments and free up LB's. Problems occur when runner cuts back and LB over pursue. or if the play is going opposite of your slant.
 
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...why is for you "the Ravens are the best team ever and will beat the Pats again" a better narrative than Did BB make a mistake in trading Jimmy G.

The media could talk the Patriots up all year and the haters would still call them Cheatriots or whatever.

Lol I mean, am I being given a choice here? The cheater thing is something I can deal with, and only the stupidest, assiest of holes still make cheating references about a team that has won 3 Super Bowls since any allegations of cheating. To me, it's a non-starter and outs someone as a person I can safely ignore.

As far as which narrative I prefer: that's just it-- I prefer NO narrative. I wish that we could just watch our favorite teams and that be that. The problem for me is that there IS a narrative at all.

This is why I suggested I preferred a tie-- if SF wins, BB was "right", Kraft was "wrong", the 49ers are the best team in the NFL, etc. et al.

If the Ravens win, I continue hearing that they're unstoppable, are the best team in football, Ravens are "Brady killers", Raven's aren't scared to play in Fox, etc., etc., etc.

A tie is literally the best outcome for the Patriots and their fans. Pats again hold the best record, we could afford to lose a game, media could STFU about Jackson, etc. Of course I know a tie ain't gonna happen, but a man can dream.
 
When I posted back on page 4 of this thread, I hoped it would ignite a discussion of ACTUAL ways that the Pats could attack the very effective Ravens offense. Instead it ignited a 15 pages of how the Pats are hated, disrespected, or spoken ill of on sports radio. What the F*CK. Who cares what people thing before Thanksgiving. Last year at this time we had 3 losses (all to mediocre teams) and had 2 more coming (also against mediocre teams).....and how did our season end up.

So lets stop whining and start talking football, which was why this thread was started.

So me start again with answering the question of why don't we simply beat the sh!t out of the QB every time he runs an option play. It seems like the logical thing to do. It was what I recommended many times myself when we talked about how to defend the RPO offenses that are popping up all over the place.

Back when option offenses like the triple option or Veer option were prevalent it was a lot easier to punish the QB because the mesh happened close to the LOS, while here it's happening 5-7 yds behind the LOS and usually the QB decision happens before the defense can attack him.

Then we come to the problem of numbers - We'd usually assign 2 men the run option, and one guy for the QB, and another for the pitch. There has been much talk about the way to solve the Ravens' offense is simply to be really disciplined. But here's the problem with that at the NFL level. The athletic ability of your athlete might not be equal, and when it isn't, you can be as disciplined as you want, and STILL not be able to stop this offense.

It's not like any of the coaching staffs of the teams the Ravens have beaten by 30 points in their run didn't know enough about football to defend what the Ravens were doing ON PAPER. Remember they know a LOT more about what exactly the Ravens are doing than we do and they have all reached the pinnacle of their professions. So they are well versed in X's and O's. Yet they STILL lost by 30+. So it isn't going to be as simple as "Bill will find a way"

I would love if the PP2 or others of the more internet savvy guys would put together as series of clips that showcase the Ravens offense so we (or at least I) could get a better sense of what they are doing and help me participate in this thread better.

But from what I HAVE seen, I think we are going to need to get bigger up front. So I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of 8 man front alignments. And you can morph into a 6man front from an odd alignment by slanting your DL in one direction or another at the snap.

The key to doing that is finding an actual formation or motion key in their offense. Slanting the DL is not something you see much these days in the NFL and could be just the kind of thing a guy like BB came up with much like the 6-1 he unvieled in the Superbowl.

BTW- there are 2 ways you can move your DL You can have them move from the man they are over to the next one in a flatter move, or you can move them from their man they are over to the next gap. The latter way would be used to create penetration as well as a direction advantage. Slants often confuse blocking assignments and free up LB's. Problems occur when runner cuts back and LB over pursue. or if the play is going opposite of your slant.
I'm exhausted, waking up at 5am. Didn't read whole post but I'll try to put together some clips tomorrow afternoon/night of their offense. Both run/pass. Won't be til after 4-5 I'm guessing though
 
When I posted back on page 4 of this thread, I hoped it would ignite a discussion of ACTUAL ways that the Pats could attack the very effective Ravens offense. Instead it ignited a 15 pages of how the Pats are hated, disrespected, or spoken ill of on sports radio. What the F*CK. Who cares what people thing before Thanksgiving. Last year at this time we had 3 losses (all to mediocre teams) and had 2 more coming (also against mediocre teams).....and how did our season end up.

So lets stop whining and start talking football, which was why this thread was started.

So me start again with answering the question of why don't we simply beat the sh!t out of the QB every time he runs an option play. It seems like the logical thing to do. It was what I recommended many times myself when we talked about how to defend the RPO offenses that are popping up all over the place.

Back when option offenses like the triple option or Veer option were prevalent it was a lot easier to punish the QB because the mesh happened close to the LOS, while here it's happening 5-7 yds behind the LOS and usually the QB decision happens before the defense can attack him.

Then we come to the problem of numbers - We'd usually assign 2 men the run option, and one guy for the QB, and another for the pitch. There has been much talk about the way to solve the Ravens' offense is simply to be really disciplined. But here's the problem with that at the NFL level. The athletic ability of your athlete might not be equal, and when it isn't, you can be as disciplined as you want, and STILL not be able to stop this offense.

It's not like any of the coaching staffs of the teams the Ravens have beaten by 30 points in their run didn't know enough about football to defend what the Ravens were doing ON PAPER. Remember they know a LOT more about what exactly the Ravens are doing than we do and they have all reached the pinnacle of their professions. So they are well versed in X's and O's. Yet they STILL lost by 30+. So it isn't going to be as simple as "Bill will find a way"

I would love if the PP2 or others of the more internet savvy guys would put together as series of clips that showcase the Ravens offense so we (or at least I) could get a better sense of what they are doing and help me participate in this thread better.

But from what I HAVE seen, I think we are going to need to get bigger up front. So I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of 8 man front alignments. And you can morph into a 6man front from an odd alignment by slanting your DL in one direction or another at the snap.

The key to doing that is finding an actual formation or motion key in their offense. Slanting the DL is not something you see much these days in the NFL and could be just the kind of thing a guy like BB came up with much like the 6-1 he unvieled in the Superbowl.

BTW- there are 2 ways you can move your DL You can have them move from the man they are over to the next one in a flatter move, or you can move them from their man they are over to the next gap. The latter way would be used to create penetration as well as a direction advantage. Slants often confuse blocking assignments and free up LB's. Problems occur when runner cuts back and LB over pursue. or if the play is going opposite of your slant.
He threw the ball 17 times in that win Monday. In the pocket, his vision cone is the middle of field and that's it. When he breaks out of the pocket he throws on the move to the sideline very well. He's a running back in actuality though. I would suspect run blitzes using an edge defender at the snap and blanket coverage in the middle of the field would slow him down.Forcing sideline throws as he's in thepocket would seem to be most effective to me.
 
For those of us that don't stay in a Patriots-centric bubble like this forum, these narratives are something we have to deal with, online and in our personal lives.

I've had to say this twice now-- a lot of you people on this forum live in or near New England, so you don't have to deal with opposing fans or ideas. For those of us that don't, we have to deal with this in real life. I've been in fist fights for simply wearing my Patriots colors. I'm LITERALLY in a somewhat heated Reddit argument with two people right now on r/NFL for simply stating "I believe a rematch with the Ravens will go differently". My fans constantly give me **** for repping the Pats in my streams or my Twitter.

My point is, it's a thing: Patriots hate IS REAL. Being a fan not living in New England is hell sometimes. A lot of this has to do with the narratives created by the media, which is all these fans of other teams have to go on (because they sure as hell don't watch the Patriots when we aren't playing their team).

So it's nice that you have the luxury to not have to care about what people think of the Patriots. Just know that the fandom is larger than Boston, and out here, in these streets, **** gets real.

If you go to /r/nfl it is your own fault. It is an unreadable garbage echo chamber full of fantasy level understanding creating a all encompassing Dunning-Kruger effect. Spending 5min there will make you want to tear your hair out because of the lack of actual insightful comments.


Also, if you get in fist fights over it you should maybe consider just stop wearing football gear or learn to brush off provocations. The whole thing is supposed to be entertainment and not some misguided way of life or focal point of identification. It is definitely not worth getting into fights over something so laughable like fandom of sport (or any kind).

Which brings me back to my original thesis. Even if Patriots hate is real and I believe you it is. Who cares ? Chuckle or just move on from arguments.
 
When I posted back on page 4 of this thread, I hoped it would ignite a discussion of ACTUAL ways that the Pats could attack the very effective Ravens offense. Instead it ignited a 15 pages of how the Pats are hated, disrespected, or spoken ill of on sports radio. What the F*CK. Who cares what people thing before Thanksgiving. Last year at this time we had 3 losses (all to mediocre teams) and had 2 more coming (also against mediocre teams).....and how did our season end up.

So lets stop whining and start talking football, which was why this thread was started.

So me start again with answering the question of why don't we simply beat the sh!t out of the QB every time he runs an option play. It seems like the logical thing to do. It was what I recommended many times myself when we talked about how to defend the RPO offenses that are popping up all over the place.

Back when option offenses like the triple option or Veer option were prevalent it was a lot easier to punish the QB because the mesh happened close to the LOS, while here it's happening 5-7 yds behind the LOS and usually the QB decision happens before the defense can attack him.

Then we come to the problem of numbers - We'd usually assign 2 men the run option, and one guy for the QB, and another for the pitch. There has been much talk about the way to solve the Ravens' offense is simply to be really disciplined. But here's the problem with that at the NFL level. The athletic ability of your athlete might not be equal, and when it isn't, you can be as disciplined as you want, and STILL not be able to stop this offense.

It's not like any of the coaching staffs of the teams the Ravens have beaten by 30 points in their run didn't know enough about football to defend what the Ravens were doing ON PAPER. Remember they know a LOT more about what exactly the Ravens are doing than we do and they have all reached the pinnacle of their professions. So they are well versed in X's and O's. Yet they STILL lost by 30+. So it isn't going to be as simple as "Bill will find a way"

I would love if the PP2 or others of the more internet savvy guys would put together as series of clips that showcase the Ravens offense so we (or at least I) could get a better sense of what they are doing and help me participate in this thread better.

But from what I HAVE seen, I think we are going to need to get bigger up front. So I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of 8 man front alignments. And you can morph into a 6man front from an odd alignment by slanting your DL in one direction or another at the snap.

The key to doing that is finding an actual formation or motion key in their offense. Slanting the DL is not something you see much these days in the NFL and could be just the kind of thing a guy like BB came up with much like the 6-1 he unvieled in the Superbowl.

BTW- there are 2 ways you can move your DL You can have them move from the man they are over to the next one in a flatter move, or you can move them from their man they are over to the next gap. The latter way would be used to create penetration as well as a direction advantage. Slants often confuse blocking assignments and free up LB's. Problems occur when runner cuts back and LB over pursue. or if the play is going opposite of your slant.


i THINK that in the first ravens game, we decided to defend by being more of a patricia day defense scheme and less of what we've seen this year and late last year that was more aggresive, so not only are the ravens a lot to handle, but we also had the defense go away from what it's made it so successful

I THINK we change this by going back to a more aggresive nature in a possible replay of the game, i would expect 90% zero coverage, put their WRs 1on1 w/ our CBs, and then have all the other defenders focus on the run

we MIGHT try to again stay w/ our light folks upfront, and see if we have more success w/ being more aggresive, if that step doesn't work then i also expect to go to a different front, maybe the 6-1 from the SB or something different, but in essence I think step 2 is to get either more people closer to the center/line of scrimmage or get bigger people on the field
 
We won't have to. They're going to lose to the Chiefs while we face the Texans because the 2 home teams are going to win during WC weekend.

The Ravens are too busy huffing their own farts and Harbaugh doesn't know how to guide a team through the perils of November dominance like BB does. He's going to keep telling Lamar that Lamar has changed the game for forever and they're going to be blindsided in the playoffs and go down because they'll think they can just keep coasting on Lamar's amazing play and the Chiefs will surprise them by not just folding.
 
just further proof they kicked our behinds and that game really wasn't close and the defense will need to be much better :cool:
gotcha, so nothing then.
 
I’m gonna go with gap responsibility and setting the edge against the option attack, probably from a big nickel defense. I don’t know what else they’d do?
 
Setting the edge and communication. If you look at most of Lamar's successful runs they come toward the outside when their TE's and O-line get a good push. Another thing I noticed is they use a lot of misdirection with fake rb handoffs with Lamar taking it himself. If we can stymie the running game then I believe those fake options would be ineffective.

The Ravens have TE's that can block and good o-linemen so I am not completely confident we have the personnel to stop their attack effectively. If our offense were to become more effective and sustain long drives then that would provide a more reasonable route for a win.
 
Slowing/stopping the Ravens offense is a large part on TB12 and our offense.
Controlling the ball.
Getting ahead in the game so we don’t become a pass-only team...and making them throw to keep up.
One thing I learned from all those “scary” Peyton Manning Colts teams is that a threat from the opposing offense affects how our offense operates.
 
I’m gonna go with gap responsibility and setting the edge against the option attack, probably from a big nickel defense. I don’t know what else they’d do?
You have to take into account what their personell is.
if they come out in 11 personell then big nickel could be a choice. But when they go 3 TE and 1 wr (or 2 te and fb) you need to play bigger. Nickel against that is too big of a mismatch. The way to stop this offense is to not let them play big and bully you because that where everything starts. Stop Ingram and Edwards who average over 100 a game and 5.2 a carry and they have to change what they do. nickel against that is 8 on 5 and the te/fb vs dbs is a huge mismatch. having 2 corners vs 1 wr is wasting a player.
I would match it with a 4-4.
Butler-Shelton-guy-wise
Collins-Bentley/Roberts-Hightower-kvn
Chung-McCourty-Gilmore.
That will take them out of it and taking them out of the huge package, jamming down your throat changes what they do.
And of course when the run option the guy assigned to the pitch man needs to make Jackson life miserable, like bb did to Faulk in 36.
 
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