Honestly I am glad about the receivers for this game

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Cool. I’ve been saying all year that Meyers should play over Dorsett. Sanu has 4 yards on 4 targets last week. Really dying on a hill for players who have led to the frustration in the first place. Give the rookies a chance. Maybe they’ll get better results.

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Brady throws to those that he knows the percentages are high that they will catch it and not get him into trouble. Harry can't get open. He may out contest his defender and come up with the ball, but how do you expect Brady to throw to him when he is well and always covered? I bash Brady a lot than most but I think our WR evaluation process is wrong. It kinda reminds me of the Pats inkling to draft short corners back in the days. It was so out dated and stupid and I am glad we have moved away from that process.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

So Edelman wasn’t worth re-signing in 2013 for more than a one-year lowball offer and it was a good move to practically let the the Giants get him for nothing? It’s never that Brady/Josh/Belichick are capable of misevaluating potential or players not being given actual chances to succeed?

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Your post has literally nothing to do with my quoted post.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Cool. I’ve been saying all year that Meyers should play over Dorsett.

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You've been wrong all year. Congrats!

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Sanu has 4 yards on 4 targets last week. Really dying on a hill for players who have led to the frustration in the first place. Give the rookies a chance. Maybe they’ll get better results.

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You could have chosen to hope for a healthier Sanu, or a Sanu that had another week in the playbook, rather than being glad that the team was losing two of its three best wide receivers and being put into a position where it was undermanned at WR even just with raw numbers.

But that would have been common sense, and we can't have that on this board anymore, apparently.

It's pretty clear that PIT's ability to identify WRs is an outlier.

The main issue is that above average WR talent is highly prized thus almost always off the board in the first half of the first round of the draft, and of course we keep winning our division year after year and we are drafting much later than that.

Well, I can't say I'm glad brady is forced to throw to unproven rookies. Considering I care alot more about the patriots winning a SB than I do developing rookies this year. That's just me though.

vuudu said:

Brady throws to those that he knows the percentages are high that they will catch it and not get him into trouble. Harry can't get open. He may out contest his defender and come up with the ball, but how do you expect Brady to throw to him when he is well and always covered? I bash Brady a lot than most but I think our WR evaluation process is wrong. It kinda reminds me of the Pats inkling to draft short corners back in the days. It was so out dated and stupid and I am glad we have moved away from that process.

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How would you know? They've had ONE game together.

If you think this is gonna be the game for that then you are probably gonna be disappointed. Go look up the playoff game vs the Chargers last year or SB51 and look at the target numbers and you'll know what i'm talking about

TommyBrady12 said:

Gut feeling we will be running the ball most of the game...

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Even if Wynn’s back I agree. They’re not gonna throw him to the wolves. This is gonna be a grind em out game where surprise! Our defense is gonna have to carry the load.

rochrist said:

How would you know? They've had ONE game together.

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Are you right, I don't know with any level of certainty, my comments are about his college videos I have seen where no matter the school he is playing, their corners are glued to him. Dude can't separate, but that is not his strength. He is like Anquan Boldin and I hope that he comes good like him.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Can anyone think of a time in Patriots history when a starter got injured and they realized the backup is better?

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Not sure if serious...

Hopefully, Edelman and White catch the flu.

Mack Herron said:

Not sure if serious...

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No - it’s obvious sarcasm as a response to the definitive Player X is better than Player Y. Just look at the depth chart! mentality. Brady over Bledsoe is the obvious reference here, but Amendola was supposed to be the #1 receiver in 2013, got dinged up, and allowed Edelman the opportunity to emerge as well.

The Patriots don’t have bad receivers. Dorsett and Sanu aren’t bad receivers. But we know their ceilings, and we know the passing has some serious issues, and it isn’t just because of the protection. Meyers has 15 catches on 19 targets while Harry has the most raw athleticism on the team. Is it possible the passing game improves? They’ve been putrid running it with Edelman and a bunch of B-minus to C other receivers.

vuudu said:

Who do you recon bares the majority of the responsibility in developing WRs? Brady? Or is it our process as an organization in identifying legit NFL talent? The Steelers do it every year in late rounds to measure.

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the Steelers don’t hit on late round receivers the way you suggest. Here’s their track record for the past 15 years. Brown is literally the only late round hit. And they’ve whiffed on more than they’ve hit on in the early rounds. They’re living off the reputation of those 3 drafts 10 years ago when they got Sanders, Wallace, Brown and Holmes

Dionte Johnson - 3rd round, nothing special yet

James Washington - 2nd round, nothing special yet


Juju Smith Schuster - 2nd round, superstar

Demarcus Ayers - 6th round, flop

Sammie Coates - 3rd round, flop

Dri Archer - 3rd round, flop

Martavis Bryant - 4th round, flop due to off field

Markus Wheaton - 3rd round, flop

Justin Brown, 6th round, flop

Toney Clemons - 7th round, flop

Emmanuel Sanders - 3rd round, great

Anotnio Brown - 6th round, great

Mike Wallace - 3rd round, good

Limas Sweed - 2nd round, flop

Dallas Baker - 7th round, flop

Santonio Holmes - 1st round, great

Willie Reid - 3rd round, flop

Fred Gibson, 4th round, flop

Brady hasnt involved the rookies yet. What makes you think he will now? Bolden, Edelmen, White, sometimes Watson. Harry and Meyers will have 4 or 5 catches combined. Book it.

I think the point about Edelman is a good one. It would be great if we could have a peek into the alternate universe where Edelman left and went to play for another team, I suspect he wouldn’t have been very impressive, because most quarterbacks aren’t very good, and most teams aren’t very good. So we would’ve looked and said, Hey to those of you who said we should’ve kept that Edelman guy, guess again...

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

This team has failed to develop receivers for so many years it’s almost comical. The last time a non-free agent receiver actually played well through his rookie contract was Deion Branch. Remember, even Edelman was going to walk in 2013 for peanuts, having never developed under Brady because Welker got all the reps.

So I am glad Brady will be FORCED to use Meyers and Harry, two of the more promising rookie receivers we’ve had in a while. Maybe it’s going to take a loss, some miscommunication, a couple of interceptions, but Brady needs to start developing younger players or the team will continue to roll with a bunch of veteran scratch tickets every year and a prayer that Edelman doesn’t regress (though he should have by now based on his age.). It had been years of band aids and reliance on superstars to cover up a weak WR development system between Brady and talented young WRs who need actual experience to improve.

I did not feel this way in 2013 about Thompkins and Dobson, though the team did still manage to be one of the top scoring offenses in the league. But I am excited that finally Brady will be forced to trust the younger guys. Sanu is a good player, but giving up a second round pick for him shows the level of desperation this team has gotten at WR. Let me reiterate that in an alternate universe, Edelman signs with the Giants in 2013 and we never knew what he could have become, despite four years of practicing with Brady.

This could be an a embarrassing face-plant on offense and loss. It could also finally be the game where the offense forges an identity. It’s up to Harry and Meyers, but equally, it is up to Brady and McDaniels.

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Yes this Belichick era has been such a disaster we should root for an embarrassing loss and that will show him and he can start doing what idiot fans want.
great post!!! You tell them brother!!!

Ring 6 said:

Yes this Belichick era has been such a disaster we should root for an embarrassing loss and that will show him and he can start doing what idiot fans want.
great post!!! You tell them brother!!!

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Wtf?

vuudu said:

Are you right, I don't know with any level of certainty, my comments are about his college videos I have seen where no matter the school he is playing, their corners are glued to him. Dude can't separate, but that is not his strength. He is like Anquan Boldin and I hope that he comes good like him.

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And if Harry was running routes where he was reliant on getting open through athleticism alone this would matter. He is learning to use footwork and leverage to get "NFL open" and additionally learning the playbook to understand what to do against what coverage so him and the QB are on the same page.

This has been the winning combo here that has produced a top 5 offense almost every year for the last decade. I can't believe that people still bring up this separation aspect. Dorsett was running a 4.33 40yd at the combine and his additional speed does exactly nothing for him on the routes he gets to run in NE.

They tried with Cooks and he had a commendable 1,000 yd season but at a catch rate of only 57%. This is just not an offense that is build on "speed" and the deep game even though people keep fantasizing about it.


It has nothing to do with drafting but with the overall philosophy where elite speed usually comes at a price and if you can build around that by getting people open through other means you can get players that are great at other aspects later in the draft or cheaper in FA.

I know people are getting antsy because Brady's clock is running out (allegedly) but Harry deserves the same time to learn and understand the offense as everyone else. Just because he was picked relatively early it doesn't mean that he has a galaxy brain that is able to absorb the information that much faster.

And that is a mistake that a lot of people somewhat doing. I see them bring up Metcalf or Samuel and they fall into this trap of just assuming that whatever they do and produce for other teams automatically means that they would have been producing at the same rate here ergo Harry was a bad pick. In reality odds are good they would have had the same slow trajectory (minus the time on IR if they stayed healthy) as most other rookies under BB.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

This team has failed to develop receivers for so many years it’s almost comical. The last time a non-free agent receiver actually played well through his rookie contract was Deion Branch. Remember, even Edelman was going to walk in 2013 for peanuts, having never developed under Brady because Welker got all the reps.

So I am glad Brady will be FORCED to use Meyers and Harry, two of the more promising rookie receivers we’ve had in a while. Maybe it’s going to take a loss, some miscommunication, a couple of interceptions, but Brady needs to start developing younger players or the team will continue to roll with a bunch of veteran scratch tickets every year and a prayer that Edelman doesn’t regress (though he should have by now based on his age.). It had been years of band aids and reliance on superstars to cover up a weak WR development system between Brady and talented young WRs who need actual experience to improve.

I did not feel this way in 2013 about Thompkins and Dobson, though the team did still manage to be one of the top scoring offenses in the league. But I am excited that finally Brady will be forced to trust the younger guys. Sanu is a good player, but giving up a second round pick for him shows the level of desperation this team has gotten at WR. Let me reiterate that in an alternate universe, Edelman signs with the Giants in 2013 and we never knew what he could have become, despite four years of practicing with Brady.

This could be an a embarrassing face-plant on offense and loss. It could also finally be the game where the offense forges an identity. It’s up to Harry and Meyers, but equally, it is up to Brady and McDaniels.

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I am not sure if 1-2 weeks of Meyers/Harry getting increased snaps will make a big difference in terms of their development. If Brady had to rely on them until January I would see your point. But to me it looks like the team and McDaniels will just try to get through this week by emphasizing different parts of the offense (RBs,TEs) and then get at least one of the two missing WRs back for next week.

I would be surprised if they randomly stumble over some kind of identity by accident. As everyone I am much more interested to see how the running game, screen game and pass protection look with Wynn back.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

This team has failed to develop receivers for so many years it’s almost comical. The last time a non-free agent receiver actually played well through his rookie contract was Deion Branch. Remember, even Edelman was going to walk in 2013 for peanuts, having never developed under Brady because Welker got all the reps.

So I am glad Brady will be FORCED to use Meyers and Harry, two of the more promising rookie receivers we’ve had in a while. Maybe it’s going to take a loss, some miscommunication, a couple of interceptions, but Brady needs to start developing younger players or the team will continue to roll with a bunch of veteran scratch tickets every year and a prayer that Edelman doesn’t regress (though he should have by now based on his age.). It had been years of band aids and reliance on superstars to cover up a weak WR development system between Brady and talented young WRs who need actual experience to improve.

I did not feel this way in 2013 about Thompkins and Dobson, though the team did still manage to be one of the top scoring offenses in the league. But I am excited that finally Brady will be forced to trust the younger guys. Sanu is a good player, but giving up a second round pick for him shows the level of desperation this team has gotten at WR. Let me reiterate that in an alternate universe, Edelman signs with the Giants in 2013 and we never knew what he could have become, despite four years of practicing with Brady.

This could be an a embarrassing face-plant on offense and loss. It could also finally be the game where the offense forges an identity. It’s up to Harry and Meyers, but equally, it is up to Brady and McDaniels.

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So you mean you have a problem with us just rolling with veteran FA acquisitions (Moss, Stallworth, Welker, Amendola, Lafell, Cooks, Gordon, Sanu etc) and winning non-stop and you would like us to go through rebuilding pain with rookies and have some losing seasons like most teams???!?