Brian Burke, ESPN Analytics: "Reduce penalties... by increasing the penalty yardage"

QuantumMechanic said:

I kinda like what someone said in a comment thread on this proposal elsewhere -- for every defensive penalty that gives an automatic first down to the offense, the analogous offensive penalty should create an immediate 4th down (or loss of possession if it is 4th down). So, for example, if the offense is called for holding on first down, it's now fourth down.

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To me, that's too much, basically ending a drive. BUT... I have no problem with losing a down. Offensive holding... 10 yards and loss of down.

QuantumMechanic said:

I kinda like what someone said in a comment thread on this proposal elsewhere -- for every defensive penalty that gives an automatic first down to the offense, the analogous offensive penalty should create an immediate 4th down (or loss of possession if it is 4th down). So, for example, if the offense is called for holding on first down, it's now fourth down.

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Check, please.

Moron probably never played a down of football in his life

I don’t want to click the link. Is there any hardcore data whatsoever that supports the hypothesis? The refs are already doing badly enough as it is. Unless the data supports this, it could be a massive failure. How about making age for refs a BFOQ? A lot of these guys are older and the game has never been faster. Would the game benefit from younger eyes and faster legs?

KontradictioN said:

I don’t want to click the link. Is there any hardcore data whatsoever that supports the hypothesis? The refs are already doing badly enough as it is. Unless the data supports this, it could be a massive failure. How about making age for refs a BFOQ? A lot of these guys are older and the game has never been faster. Would the game benefit from younger eyes and faster legs?

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I would not mind some tech improvements that help determine where the ball is relative to line of scrimmage, end zone etc., and anything else that could improve the game’s speed and accuracy. I know John Mara said they couldn’t afford end zone cameras when BB suggested it a few years ago but he was just being the giant douche that he is.

I do not want a bunch of young officials who are just hipsters and millennials wearing stripes and wanting double decaf latte and hair gel adjustment breaks and wanting to wear Vans instead of regulation cleats. But that could just be the grumpy old boomer in me.

Sicilian said:

Bill Burr used to do a bit about laws, where he said (paraphrasing), that there should only be about 10 laws in America. If you want to make a new one, you have to remove one of the old ones. That makes you really think about whether the new law is worth it. Hyperbole of course, but as a philosophy pretty sound. If you have unlimited power to enact anything you want, there's very little incentive to think it through beforehand. So you end up with the Frankenstein's Monster that is the NFL rulebook.

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We are a long way from that sort of scenario.

United States Code - Wikipedia

The Code of Laws of the United States of America[1] (variously abbreviated to Code of Laws of the United States, United States Code, U.S. Code, U.S.C., or USC) is the official compilation and codification of the general and permanent federal statutes of the United States. It contains 53 titles (Titles 1–54, excepting Title 53, it being reserved).[2][3] The main edition is published every six years by the Office of the Law Revision Counsel of the House of Representatives, and cumulative supplements are published annually.[4][5] The official version of those laws not codified in the United States Code can be found in United States Statutes at Large.

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Clonamery said:

I would not mind some tech improvements that help determine where the ball is relative to line of scrimmage, end zone etc., and anything else that could improve the game’s speed and accuracy. I know John Mara said they couldn’t afford end zone cameras when BB suggested it a few years ago but he was just being the giant douche that he is.

I do not want a bunch of young officials who are just hipsters and millennials wearing stripes and wanting double decaf latte and hair gel adjustment breaks and wanting to wear Vans instead of regulation cleats. But that could just be the grumpy old boomer in me.

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OK, Boomer.

KontradictioN said:

OK, Boomer.

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The League has been working on the age thing the last few years. Problem is there are fewer and fewer refs at the lower levels which makes quality an issue as well. There was an article about a few weeks ago but being a boomer I have no idea how to find it.

Clonamery said:

The League has been working on the age thing the last few years. Problem is there are fewer and fewer refs at the lower levels which makes quality an issue as well. There was an article about a few weeks ago but being a boomer I have no idea how to find it.

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Sicilian said:

This sounds like one of those things that a nerd (and I can say that, because I am one) comes up with while sitting at a cubicle in a temperature controlled office, sipping watered down Keurig coffee and "theorizing" on what would happen if football were just chess with meatsacks instead of pieces.

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To be fair, some coaches think this way.

I know I am a broken record on this, but F it, here it is again.

The Rugby World Cup just completed a couple of weeks ago. On display (beyond just the best that that sport has to offer) was their refs/replay system; which while the games are different, could work well in the NFL.

1. On Field Refs are mic'd - and communication between them is heard in the stadium/broadcast.
2. A set of refs are "upstairs" watching every angle available of every play; buzzing down in real time to indicate a missed call or if a call was erroneously made - with all communication again being public.
3. Even with this more involved ref/replay system, the game (which is faster paced than Football; which has natural lulls in it) doesn't suffer from this transparency.

Couple with this, additional technology. More cameras, could you do an infrared on field grid with sensors on players/the ball to determine exactly where they stepped out, or where the ball stopped on that 4th and 1 dive play or where that punt really went out of bounds, rather than someone attempting to use geometry they have long since forgot....

As other's have said, making penalties stricter won't lessen the frequency of them when said penalty is a judgement call. I'm pretty sure most coaches teach players to avoid them at their current strictness; yet they still occur.

The only people who lose in a more transparent system of governance is Vegas....which is probably why would it will never happen. Entertainment is more profitable than pure sport.

It sounds vaguely arrogant that players and coaches find the existing penalties trivial enough that they aren't actively trying to "not" commit a penalty?

Thew biggest issue, as a fan, is when you see the same things happening and it's being called differently within a game. I think we understand they players are playing on an edge where they need that reaction to be as close to when the ball is snapped as possible. It would lend way too much attention on the penalties by making them worse.

Why is it that people want to change things and make it worse?

RelocatedPatFan said:

Why is it that people want to change things and make it worse?

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Because they’re people.

oldrover said:

How to solve rising penalty rates in the NFL: Increase the yardage

I've quoted the changes below so you need not click on ESPN...

View attachment 25105

I understand the motive... reducing penalties... but honestly, a good chunk of the penalties called are ticky-tack, if not completely wrong. Refs especially mess up roughing the passer and pass interference these days, and those are big impact plays. And honestly, teams probably technically commit some kind of a penalty on every play. Can't say that more penalty yardage feels like the right answer.

So, what to do? Anything? I'd personally prefer to see the NFL only throw the flag on plays that even that team's own fans will say, "yeah... that's a foul." Instead... it's flag after flag after flag... dunno how you all feel... but I feel like yelling at the TV...

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I know I love a good 6-3 game. I dunno about you. But that's what you'll get with this, lots more of those.

Headline from 2021: Brian Burke, ESPN Analytics, Advocates for Summary Execution at the 50 Yard Line to Reduce Pass Interference Penalties.

slash83 said:

If defensive holding is 5 yards, why is offensive holding 10?

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A sack is usually more than 5 yards so thats maybe the idea? I dunno.

I miss the 5 yard incidental facemask penalty instead of the straight 15 yarder no matter how egregious.

I know...let's give the refs even greater potential to influence the outcome of the game.

**** it. Let’s start every drive at the opponents 35 yd line while we’re at it. You get 8 plays to put points on the board.

3 Mississippi rule
OL wear oven mitts