To Win is to Fail?

MainePatsFan26 said:

You're right that having the #1 pick isn't a guarantee of a great player.

I will say, though, that the odds are against the #1 pick being the best player when he gets followed by seven rounds of picks. Yet the #1 pick must be historically the most likely selection in the draft -- and by a significant amount -- to make a major contribution unless #2 or #3 somehow have more of a claim on great players.

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I don’t understand your last sentence.

The reality is if any team believes in a pick so much that they are positive he will save their franchise, any of them could put together a package to trade up to a spot to take him.

It’s just a matter of how much you believe and are willing to pay.

Destroying your franchise for a year isn’t worth it.

pheenix11 said:

Destroying your franchise for a year isn’t worth it.

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History has proven that wrong, repeatedly.

You people who are saying that winning is never a bad thing are ignoring more than a century of sports which prove otherwise.

With the first pick in the 2020 nfl draft Cincinnati selects .......Marvin Lewis.

Kiper: great pick. Impact coach. Maybe the best coach. He can be the driving force to a playoff birth. My early choice for coach of the year.

Deus Irae said:

That's not true. It's usually great to win, but not always. The game with Cassel tossing that pass into the seats was a good example of when the loss is a win.

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Not sure the Pats didn't try winning that game, Deus, or that Cassel's incompletion on the 2-point conversion was intentional. I was there and recall him being under pressure when he made the throw.

Tunescribe said:

Not sure the Pats didn't try winning that game, Deus, or that Cassel's incompletion on the 2-point conversion was intentional. I was there and recall him being under pressure when he made the throw.

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It seemed to be a pretty open secret at the time that he was under instruction to throw it away.

Miami is LOADED for the next two drafts...so methinks W > draft slot as far as the Dolphins are concerned.

rochrist said:

It seemed to be a pretty open secret at the time that he was under instruction to throw it away.

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According to who? That's just conjecture. If BB was hellbent on losing that game, why did the Patriots pass for the touchdown?

Deus Irae said:

History has proven that wrong, repeatedly.

You people who are saying that winning is never a bad thing are ignoring more than a century of sports which prove otherwise.

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We've now got multiple people disagreeing with a historical fact.

Tunescribe said:

According to who? That's just conjecture. If BB was hellbent on losing that game, why did the Patriots pass for the touchdown?

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According to most everyone who was in a position to comment on it at the time. As to why pass, you don't throw a game in the most obvious fashion possible.

School me please. Is the draftee obligated to sign with the team that selected him? Can he avoid the draft and sign with the team of his choice?

I didn't follow the dealings of the NFL years ago, just the game itself. But I am familiar with the deal that Rivers pulled and have a little idea about Elway as well. What prevents others from pulling these stunts? I mean if the teams can suck for luck, can the player as well? Can someone like Tua say, "I want to play for the Patriots only!" and refuse to join the draft?

Deus Irae said:

History has proven that wrong, repeatedly.

You people who are saying that winning is never a bad thing are ignoring more than a century of sports which prove otherwise.

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The Patriots drafting at #32 every year say hi

fourhour said:

School me please. Is the draftee obligated to sign with the team that selected him? Can he avoid the draft and sign with the team of his choice?

I didn't follow the dealings of the NFL years ago, just the game itself. But I am familiar with the deal that Rivers pulled and have a little idea about Elway as well. What prevents others from pulling these stunts? I mean if the teams can suck for luck, can the player as well? Can someone like Tua say, "I want to play for the Patriots only!" and refuse to join the draft?

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Basically, no. Unless they have some sort of leverage, they're pretty much stuck. All they can do is sit out a year refusing to sign with the team that drafted them, and then reenter the following draft. Elway had the leverage of a baseball career.

pheenix11 said:

The Patriots drafting at #32 every year say hi

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In what way is that relevant to the question at hand?

I'll answer for you: It has no relevance, whatsoever.

Deus Irae said:

In what way is that relevant to the question at hand?

I'll answer for you: It has no relevance, whatsoever.

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It’s relevant because the Patriots have rebuilt a couple times during this run without going in the toilet.

You don’t need to tank to win. In fact most teams who do just continue to suck.

pheenix11 said:

It’s relevant because the Patriots have rebuilt a couple times during this run without going in the toilet.

You don’t need to tank to win. In fact most teams who do just continue to suck.

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It's not relevant. A "need" to tank is not what I've discussed. I've simply noted what's obvious to anyone who's followed sport:

There are times when winning is bad and losing is good, and sports history has shown that many times.

Edit: And Ring 6 is clueless about sports history, apparently.

Patstastic said:

The Dolphins still have the Bengals and Jets on the schedule. Two potential wins. They may very well screw themselves for decades if they win those.

The Bengals are an absolutely horrid franchise. Top to bottom. I think we underestimated how horrid they truly are. I wouldn't be stunned if they go 0-16.

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If the Bengals do end going winless, they would be the second team to do that in the AFCN in a 3 year period. Just something to remember when people say how tough and competitive that division is while the AFCE is weak.

Deus Irae said:

It's not relevant. A "need" to tank is not what I've discussed. I've simply noted what's obvious to anyone who's followed sport:

There are times when winning is bad and losing is good, and sports history has shown that many times.

Edit: And Ring 6 is clueless about sports history, apparently.

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I am well aware of sports history. I disagree with your opinions on it. I mark disagree because you are wrong.

rochrist said:

According to most everyone who was in a position to comment on it at the time. As to why pass, you don't throw a game in the most obvious fashion possible.

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This can be argued a number of ways, but the upshot was that BB's No. 1 priority was resting regulars for the playoffs. No one from the team subsequently confirmed their intent was to lose, so we're left to fill the narrative with leaps of logic that might not be correct.

IF BB told Cassel to throw the ball away thus ensuring defeat, the message that sends his team is to fear certain opponents (in that case Pittsburgh). Knowing what we do of BB's philosophy, that doesn't seem to fit. Also, had the Pats beaten Denver after dispatching Jacksonville, they STILL would've played Pittsburgh in the AFC title game. I just don't believe it's a given that BB threw the Miami game to avoid Pittsburgh in the first round.

rochrist said:

Basically, no. Unless they have some sort of leverage, they're pretty much stuck. All they can do is sit out a year refusing to sign with the team that drafted them, and then reenter the following draft. Elway had the leverage of a baseball career.

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Thanks for your reply. And OMG, just reading some **** on the Chiefs forum when I realised my fucc up. Replace Rivers with Eli.