Beginning To Understand How Goodell Issued Defaltegate Ruling

@captain insano More like Captain
Confus-o, amirite?

Froob said:

There's really no need to tank in the NFL, there's quality in the draft through out. It's not at all like the NBA. I don't think a punishment is needed because it's a bad plan.

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Agree.

Wouldn’t mind seeing a lottery for picks 1-5 regardless, just be completely sure teams aren’t tanking. You are right, though, that it’s very different in basketball. Tank for Tua is stupid because by chance alone he will not even be the best player in the draft or even best QB. Suck for Sam was stupid because he sucks too. Suck for Luck May have cost the Colts a Super Bowl and was an overall negative in drafting him and dropping Manning. RGIII turned out to be a bust. Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, JJ Watt, Aaron Donald, etc. were all available without tanking.

Even in the NBA a LeBron James type player is so rare. Most superstars were not first overall picks.

There is no rational answer regarding someone incapable of rational and just thought.

mosslost said:

well they could have made it then they would have won, who knows

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Not the way the play was called. Play was dead on arrival. Also, they're in Miami with chance to extend game into OT for the possible 1st win, why not just kick the PAT. They don't want to win, especially against the 2nd worse team in the league.

maust1013 said:

That simply is not true. The Patriots are still in Massachusetts because Kraft optioned the land around the stadium then bought it and the iron clad lease that came with it out of bankruptcy court and leveraged them into the purchase of the team.

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You are right and wrong.

The person you replied to was talking about the Hartford thing.

Goodell was very involved with the discussions with both Kraft and the MA politicians to get Kraft to stay in MA. There was a big article about it in SI a few years ago.

Ah — here it is:
How the Patriots Almost Became Connecticut’s Team

“Goodell also helped them map out a plan of action, to be carried out largely in private over the next few months. The group started by secretly meeting with key decision makers, including Boston Mayor Thomas Menino and the House Speaker Thomas Finneran, who had opposed Kraft’s failed stadium effort. “Some bridges had been burned on Beacon Hill,” Kirk said, referring to the state capital, “and they had to be re-constructed.” Then they started rallying leaders in the business community, the people who would be buying luxury boxes.

All along, Goodell called Kirk two to three times a day, checking in to make sure everything went smoothly and then reporting back to Kraft. “He was enormously helpful,” Kirk said.”

Goodell was also one of the negotiators in the final showdown between Kraft and Birmingham & Finneran.

QuantumMechanic said:

You are right and wrong.

The person you replied to was talking about the Hartford thing.

Goodell was very involved with the discussions with both Kraft and the MA politicians to get Kraft to stay in MA. There was a big article about it in SI years ago.

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Anyone that thinks the Hartford deal was anything other than a great hand played to perfection by ol' Krafty Bob has their head up their rear. It was all BS from the get go. Goodell was nothing but Krafty Bob's beard, assigned by Tagliabue, in the Hartford charade. Goodell "kept them in Massachusetts" my ass, Kraft poison pilled that deal from the get go. There were more free 'outs' in it than a 19 inning game.

Froob said:

...So what's the evidence? The Dolphins sold off good players but, it's not like they're going into games actively trying to lose. Players don't go into games trying to lose, that would only cost them money and plus they may not even be a part of the future.

Flores wouldn't have put Fitzpatrick into the game if he was trying to lose, he'd have stuck with a struggling Rosen.

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I don't disagree, however, the one thing I would say is all tanking is not the same. There's tanking because there's a superstar you want. Then there's involuntary tanking due to a necessary culture and personnel change. When you take over a team that hasn't won jack in years, you have to go in and sh!t can some players and coaches, even some 'untouchables'. We've seen BP do it and we've seen BB do it (Patriots won 4 games first year of BB?). IMHO Flores had to bring the wrecking ball and rebuild. Playing Fitzgerald is like your home is demolished-being rebuilt and Fitzgerald is like staying at 2.5 star hotel for a year. He's the temporary place to stay until the better place is ready. IMHO

venecol said:

Not the way the play was called. Play was dead on arrival. Also, they're in Miami with chance to extend game into OT for the possible 1st win, why not just kick the PAT. They don't want to win, especially against the 2nd worse team in the league.

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The chance of a successful 2 point conversion is slightly less than 50%. The chance of a successful PAT + 50% of winning in overtime is also slightly less than 50%. So basically there is no real advantage to playing for OT.

Going for the immediate win/loss with 2pt conversion also reduces is injury risk. Making it the clear smart play.

Nehalem said:

The chance of a successful 2 point conversion is slightly less than 50%. The chance of a successful PAT + 50% of winning in overtime is also slightly less than 50%. So basically there is no real advantage to playing for OT.

Going for the immediate win/loss with 2pt conversion also reduces is injury risk. Making it the clear smart play.

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If it's such a smart play how come hardly any team attempts it? Most teams in this situation would secure the tie and go into OT. I'm too lazy to look it up, but pretty sure stats would prove it, say for the last 20 years.

The other point I was trying to make (not very well) is that being in their stadium, it would have been better for their fans to continue the game, given the horrible start. I was at the NE game and I can tell you the fans still want to see them win and be entertained.

Goodell should be embarrassed that in the centennial the league is displaying these crap teams, tanking, dirt poor officiating, players shooting their way out of contracts, and kangaroo court justice. None of it matters though since viewership is through the roof. Life is good. Go Pats

shmessy said:

Roger Goodell says NFL sees no evidence of teams tanking

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Roger Goodell is part politician, part lawyer, part corporate->media shill. He's the embodiment of what's wrong with so many of those that inhabit the elite ivory tower. And what he did to Brady -- Roger's not fit to carry Brady's avocado ice cream cooler -- was appalling.
But mom always told me to find something good to say about anyone. So I can say this positive thing about Roger: he looks good in an avatar wearing a clown's nose.

TheBostonStraggler said:

Roger Goodell is part politician, part lawyer, part corporate->media shill. He's the embodiment of what's wrong with so many of those that inhabit the elite ivory tower. And what he did to Brady -- Roger's not fit to carry Brady's avocado ice cream cooler -- was appalling.
But mom always told me to find something good to say about anyone. So I can say this positive thing about Roger: he looks good in an avatar wearing a clown's nose.

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Roger Goodell is actually 0% lawyer. He has a degree in economics, but he’s still a POS puppet of the owners.

lusdawg said:

Roger Goodell is actually 0% lawyer. He has a degree in economics, but he’s still a POS puppet of the owners.

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Apologies for making that sound literal. I was using "lawyer" (and "politician") as substitutes for liar and phony .

1960Pats said:

It's close but doesn't stoop to the level of Indy. They had Suck For Luck and also tanked a game to help get the Jete into the playoffs instead of the Steelers, who had Indy's number at the time. I'm not sure on the year.

What makes this whole thing so interesting is how Goody wants to throw dirt at the Dolphins' even though he's the man responsible for creating parity. If he had issues with them he should have done something when they were dumping players.

Goody leads like he's still with the Jete.

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The management is tanking; the coaches and players are competing. I can't fathom how tanking is considered in poor form, however, when it is a viable strategy to win an eventual championship. I'm not even sure I'm against a team's coaches aiming to lose if it is part of a strategy for future success. Aiming to lose is wrong, however, when it is for selfish reasons like throwing a game to win a bet.

Pretending tanking doesn't exist is a farce. It denies that success is a multi-year process rather than just the luck of the draw at the start of the season. If Goodell didn't want tanking, each year there would be a draft between clubs for all players so everyone had an equal chance at success. But we don't live in that egalitarian sports world. To say otherwise is just the usual mumbo jumbo.

It’s never been difficult to understand how goodell reaches his ruling.

Goodell getting bad PR about handling discipline cases.
Owners hate patriot dynasty.
Patriots get accused
Not only can he build his rep as a tough guy, he can make the owners happy and deflect criticism that all his suspensions were minorities by inventing a violation and further inventing that the great white hope had something to do with it.

Guilt was determined before the investigation started and the parties delivered what they were paid to.

Goodell knew as well as we do that nothing happened.

TheBostonStraggler said:

Roger Goodell is part politician, part lawyer, part corporate->media shill. He's the embodiment of what's wrong with so many of those that inhabit the elite ivory tower. And what he did to Brady -- Roger's not fit to carry Brady's avocado ice cream cooler -- was appalling.
But mom always told me to find something good to say about anyone. So I can say this positive thing about Roger: he looks good in an avatar wearing a clown's nose.

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Another nice thing to say about Goodell: when he dies, the world will be a better place.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

...Most superstars were not first overall picks.

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That's a matter of numbers, though, not some magical find. The notion that having the first pick overall isn't significant just doesn't hold up to the facts of the draft.

List of first overall National Football League draft picks - Infogalactic: the planetary knowledge core

Simply put most of us see Goodell as nothing more than a puppet and a caricature on a t-shirt..

Simpelton said:

Congratualations! You get it!

The problem here is that the BOG hires the commissioner. While the Commissioner can defy the BOG, the BOG is never going to hire a Commissioner that would actually do it.

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Everyone knows Goodell is a puppet but he is a willing puppet who has accepted payment to be the guy who does the dirty work which makes him just as guilty as the owners.

Off with his head.