Antonio Brown

LJRomanoff said:

You simply don't know from an outside perspective whether the reasons he was fired "still exist".

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Fair enough, but my initial post was in response to AB himself. "They're paying me, so they might as well play me." THAT is sunk cost. We don't know if the reasons still exist (I 100% believe they do, but for the sake of argument), but we do know that simply having to pay him is NOT a good enough reason to go back on that decision.

XLIX said:

But what if AB were to say "I violated the teams of the guarantee and I forfeit all rights to that money"...? I mean, if the Patriots were to win the arbitration hearing, wouldn't they get a credit for that cap money?

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Not sure. That sounds like the NFLPA and Dee Smith might want to have a little chat with him and remind him he can't do that. If he did do that he is more batshit crazy than I thought.

If the NEP win the case, they would get cap credit in 2020

Sicilian said:

we do know that simply having to pay him is NOT a good enough reason to go back on that decision.

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I agree with you there.

robertweathers said:

Not sure. That sounds like the NFLPA and Dee Smith might want to have a little chat with him and remind him he can't do that. If he did do that he is more batshit crazy than I thought.

If the NEP win the case, they would get cap credit in 2020

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If AB agreed to this there’s no point in even testing his brain for CTE.

The real reason he was released is because it gave Kraft the illusion of respectability. Just what he needed after two public happy endings.

The biggest mistake the Patriots made was not adding a clause in his contract forcing Brown to trade out his cell phone for an early 90s flip phone until the end of the season (I'm obviously kidding...sort of).

Unfortunately, if the guy had one of those, he'd still be here. But he can't/couldn't help himself...which is too bad because, as we saw, he would have been great in this offense. In the meantime, not that my opinion matters, but I don't see a way they bring him back ... I just can't see it happening.

PatsDeb said:

Here's an idea for Mosslost's next poll. I am at No. 7 (and have been since the day after AB was released). Seems like we've still got a bunch of 3 and 4s around here.

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Next mosslost poll is gonna be "is this the worst we fell after 6-0? "

XLIX said:

Again this is all hypothetical because I don't believe for a second it is happening. But....

The Patriots didn't pay him the $9 million signing bonus. As such, AB filed a grievance. Filing a grievance is basically a voluntary thing which I am sure he could drop at any time should he so desire. So I imagine he could theoretically get a brand new contract with a brand new signing bonus with the agreement that he drops his grievance. Or they could simply pay the old signing bonus and give him a new deal at league minimum.

How all this would effect the salary cap is beyond the understanding of mortal man. Someone should tweet @Miguel.

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I can help you out on a couple of facts.

1. The $5MM he counts to the cap is going to be on there the entire season REGARDLESS of whether he gets paid or not.

2. IF he ends up NOT getting the $5MM bonus that was supposed to paid this year, then the $5MM can come off, but not until this issue has been fully adjudicated. (whenever that happens) Same goes for the $4.5MM dead money next year.

3. As to whether he eventually gets paid in the end, is a lot more murky than some might lead you to believe, at least as I see it. This sounds like a lot of legal disputes that reach civil court. 2 parties who see sections of laws that they see support THEIR position and feel they are in the right. The key phrase here is TWO parties.

The way I see it. The CBA has pretty clear language within its articles that would lead you to believe that Brown has got to be paid. HOWEVER there is also pretty clear language within the contract Brown signed AND the League OK'd, that show he violated those guarantees and thus should NOT be paid the bonuses.

TWO sides who seem to have strong cases just like many civil suits. It will be a matter of a Judge to decide which legal document has precedence.

4. I've been thinking about the idea of bringing AB back and what it would take for me to welcome it. And to my surprise I actually came up with a set of conditions that would get me to support such a move.

1. A public apology to the woman he sent that email to and her children. He can couch it in claiming he didn't realize that it could be taken as a threat, but he now realizes that it could and he's sorry that he put her family in that position, or something to that effect BTW - it also wouldn't hurt, if he just settled the damned suit.

2. The NFL comes out and said that based on THEIR investigation they see no reason why Antonio Brown can't play football this season. Or something to the effect that he won't be put on the exempt list this season.

3. A public apology to Kraft and the Patriots for putting them in a bad public light. He can couch it again by saying that at the time he didn't realize the consequences of his actions, but now he does and hopes in the future he will be more self aware Yada Yada Yada.....and he's ready to get back to work.

If THOSE items were ever to occur then I'd be on board to welcome him back for the rest of the season.

It's been almost 3 weeks.

AB has changed.

patfanken said:

3. As to whether he eventually gets paid in the end, is a lot more murky than some might lead you to believe, at least as I see it. This sounds like a lot of legal disputes that reach civil court. 2 parties who see sections of laws that they see support THEIR position and feel they are in the right. The key phrase here is TWO parties.

The way I see it. The CBA has pretty clear language within its articles that would lead you to believe that Brown has got to be paid. HOWEVER there is also pretty clear language within the contract Brown signed AND the League OK'd, they he violated those guarantees and thus should NOT be paid the bonuses.

TWO sides who seem to have strong cases just like many civil suits. It will be a matter of a Judge to decide which legal document has precedence.

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Regardless of perceived merits, arbitrators in labor grievances rarely feel comfortable making decisions that radically alter the interpretation of a CBA. Brown should feel very good about his chances because a finding for the league would blow a hole in the collectively bargained concept of guaranteed money as currently understood. A ruling for Brown is just a sort of one-off, idiosyncratic ruling about money that hews to precedent, while a ruling for the league is putting your thumb on the scale of a CBA and then pushing down hard in management's favor.

It's exceedingly unlikely any arbitrator's going to do that, especially when they come off a list that both the union and management had to sign off on.

Sicilian said:

I don't believe they cut him just to save the money. The reasons they cut him still exist, and whether you believe it was Bill or Bob, right or wrong, that money is GONE. So your choices are lose the money and move on, or lose the money and have whatever negative impact you perceived Brown would have back on your team. There's no reason to go back on your reasons for cutting him just because you're paying him anyway. That's the part that's sunk cost.

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He is cancer. Malignant cancer. There’s a reason why the most talented team in the NFL the past decade never won a Super Bowl. The FFL boys can’t grasp that.

Remember Gronk’s commercial for Tide last year? Where he shakes his finger at morons and repeats “Don’t eat the pods! No eat! No eat!”. Sometimes I think that audience has sought refuge on this website.

.

I'm going to hide under the sofa

robertweathers said:

Not sure. That sounds like the NFLPA and Dee Smith might want to have a little chat with him and remind him he can't do that. If he did do that he is more batshit crazy than I thought.

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I don't think it is batshit crazy from AB's perspective. He might actually lose the arbitration. He is (hypothetically) only surrendering his right to appeal under the condition that he gets the same amount of money under a new deal.

As for DeMaurice Smith, he has even less power in the NFL than the NBA does in China, so he will do as he is told and like it.

Brady to Kraft, "I've done a lot of things with the team and want to do more. The opportunity to play with such a talented receiver and where he is now is sad. I want to help AB. We might be saving a life doing this, and we will win the Super Bowl too. This is what it means to be a Patriot. We make mistakes, but we do good things to redeem ourselves. You say I am like a son. This is what I want. To do something good. Help AB and win a title."

Triumph said:

It's been almost 3 weeks.

AB has changed.

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Yup, he's morphed into BS.

patfanken said:

3. As to whether he eventually gets paid in the end, is a lot more murky than some might lead you to believe, at least as I see it. This sounds like a lot of legal disputes that reach civil court. 2 parties who see sections of laws that they see support THEIR position and feel they are in the right. The key phrase here is TWO parties.

The way I see it. The CBA has pretty clear language within its articles that would lead you to believe that Brown has got to be paid. HOWEVER there is also pretty clear language within the contract Brown signed AND the League OK'd, that show he violated those guarantees and thus should NOT be paid the bonuses.

TWO sides who seem to have strong cases just like many civil suits. It will be a matter of a Judge to decide which legal document has precedence.

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I agree with the above. I think both sides have very strong cases. And that's why we have judges and courts of law (or, in this case, arbitration).

patfanken said:

4. I've been thinking about the idea of bringing AB back and what it would take for me to welcome it. And to my surprise I actually came up with a set of conditions that would get me to support such a move.

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I did a similar exercise and the thing I came up with is that he settles (i.e. pays) all pending civil suits (and other debts) associated with him. That would make a lot of these problems go away.

If he settles his legal issues out of court or is found innocent, bringing him back is not the worst thing in the world?

Ian said:

The biggest mistake the Patriots made was not adding a clause in his contract forcing Brown to trade out his cell phone for an early 90s flip phone until the end of the season (I'm obviously kidding...sort of).

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Maybe my dad can lend him his cell phone.... I'd love to see AB try and send a text when he has to press:

5-5.... 3.... 4-4-4.... 7-7.... 7-7.... 8..... 4-4-4.....

Family said:

Brady to Kraft, "I've done a lot of things with the team and want to do more. The opportunity to play with such a talented receiver and where he is now is sad. I want to help AB. We might be saving a life doing this, and we will win the Super Bowl too. This is what it means to be a Patriot. We make mistakes, but we do good things to redeem ourselves. You say I am like a son. This is what I want. To do something good. Help AB and win a title."

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Brady IRL: “I don’t make personnel decisions. That’s not my job.”

Patstastic said:

Kraft would have egg all over his face

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No wonder he's trying to suppress the videos...