Antonio Brown

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

See the post right below this...it’s a natural mistrust of Kraft and whether he’s doing things for the 31 because he folds like a cheap tent. Many other owners would fight tooth and nail to keep a superstar player. Look at what the Chiefs just did.

Kraft didn’t even let the league investigation play out. Brown may have been suspended for a few games, written an apology, etc. Knowing Belichick wasn’t on board with this speaks volumes. Belichick is also familiar with “the line.”

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Curran did note that Belichick understood and accepted the decision, and that he couldn't promise Kraft that such behavior wouldn't happen again in the future.

Who's to say Brown wouldn't have been placed on the exempt list following this incident, considering the fact that 48 hours prior the league had told him not to contact these women?

Kraft appeared more than willing to let the investigation play out until Brown disobeyed the league and sent those texts, which was inevitable based on his history.

Even had the team kept Brown around following the texts, I feel extremely confident that he would've done something else in the future to cause a distraction and jeopardize his playing status.

Again, look at his history pre, during, and post-Patriots.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

How can I use the agree and disagree buttons at the same time for one post?

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Trust me I get it, I just think he gets too much blame at times.

In terms of AB, he was almost nuclear after Oakland. Sounded like a mental patient. Public drama.

Kraft still ok'd AB, giving the team a chance to do some special things. AB basically took a dump on his desk w his actions & had to go. He didn't even try to fall in line.

I can't blame Kraft at all for letting him go but do give him credit for bringing him in. Along w Moss, Dillon & a bunch of others.

IllegalContact said:

Kraft is about the value of his investment......anything else would make him a fool

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Then we can acknowledge that any type of moral high ground he’s taking is a load of crap.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Analogous and the same are different things. You really need to read the case files on Kraft and the legal team’s strategy, which was to pick apart the credibility of anyone in the JPD for previous disciplinary reasons. Most of that became unnecessary because the case didn’t even get to that stage, but that was absolutely their plan if the tapes had been allowed. @venecol followed the case very closely as he lives there and can confirm this.

Brown is an unpolished idiot who is knows the streets and the hood; Kraft is an elite rich guy with an education and lives in the norms of society. Both guys went after the people who were accusing them of wrongdoings as their strategies, trying to wield their power to the best of their abilities. Kraft and his “principled stand” here is quite laughable.

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Kraft went after the entity that criminally charged him; Brown went after someone who shared a story of an experience with him (and never criminally or civilly accused him of anything). I suppose it could simply be a matter of a lack of understanding on Brown's part ... I guess it comes down to how important that detail is, and that's subjective.

As for the rest, I'll repeat myself:

I don't care how unpolished Brown is; if he is unable to follow the basic instruction of the NFL to not contact these women, then I don't see how he could possibly be trusted for any extended period of time.

And it's not just these texts -- everywhere Brown has been he has repeatedly acted in stupid, toxic, malicious ways on social media and has shown zero capacity to learn, grow, and change. Again, not a matter of 'if', a matter of 'when'.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Then we can acknowledge that any type of moral high ground he’s taking is a load of crap.

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The hubris runs deep throughout the organization.....including Kraft, including Brady, including Bb

MoreBellhorn said:

I wish Belichick controlled everything without interference.

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As do I, unfortunately even he has a boss.

BaconGrundleCandy said:

Group think runs wild here & they love going after Kraft.

Guy is far from perfect but not nearly as bad as the pack barks.

For such an older crowd you'd think the have perspective from previous owners this team has had.

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I like watching football.....it’s even better when they win

I don’t give flying f*ck about the drama

BUSTAMOVE said:

Who gives a royal ****e. Brady plays football. Kraft and BB do the hiring and firing.

First we wanted prima donna distraction fueled fecal matter players like AB. Players that ruin the enjoyment of pure football.

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I don't want to get dragged into the off topic stuff here, but the quoted post needs addressing. In no way does AB ruin the enjoyment of pure football. In fact, in terms of pure football, players like AB are what make the game worth watching.

Deus Irae said:

I don't want to get dragged into the off topic stuff here, but the quoted post needs addressing. In no way does AB ruin the enjoyment of pure football. In fact, in terms of pure football, players like AB are what make the game worth watching.

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I agree ... absolutely love watching AB play and it is football at its' best.

Patstastic said:

Mazz & Murray agreed with Felger. Curran said it as well.

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Admitting to watching those clowns will give you a bad reputation.

Brewskies said:

Based on what I have read about Brown's contract and the Patriots actions, I think the Pats owe him $9 M.

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Well they can make it money well spent by bringing him back.

Ras-IR Dowling said:

With regards to BB and Brady wanting AB to stay, is BB saying these things during his press conferences and I’m just not hearing them?

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Why would BB put himself out on a limb for a player who has already been cut? Internal reporting reveals that Kraft was the one who pushed for the move, not BB and I believe it.

Chevy said:

The owner went over an employee's head? How does that work?

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BB is in charge of football operations as the GM. Kraft is in charge of business decisions. Cutting AB is a football roster move. Therefore Kraft went over BB, basically saying, this is how it's gonna be. He did the same with the Jimmy G trade before. That was a football decision but the owner decided to go over the GM ie BB.

I'm ok with losing Jimmy G as Brady has shown he has plenty left in the tank and can win us more championships. But the AB move seems a lot more motivated by PR than an actually sound football move. Others have mentioned Kraft's hypocrisy in this manner as he was caught red handed in a massage parlor. But he cuts AB because of a stupid text he sent to his ex?

In any case it was a truly bizarre whirlwind saga. AB to the Pats for the span of a week and a half. We'll never know what he could have really done here with a full season of football. We might have seen some video game numbers popping out. That could have been fun.

shmessy said:

That year was classic. The beginning of the 21 game streak. The confirmation that 2001 was not a run of the mill fluke. And yes, just as you noted, the delicious symmetry that of a perfect mirror-like turn of the tables 31-0 against the Bills on the last day of the season. I think Beldsoe had them driving at the end of the game when they were down 31-0 and I was PRAYING for someone to stop the drive and keep the score as is. I believe he was picked off in the end zone by somebody unexpected (maybe Troy Brown??). I've rarely been happier for a game that meant nothing.

It's almost weird how that went.

.

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2003 was one of the most rewarding. 2014 and 2016 as well.

Ras-IR Dowling said:

Want to say it was Larry Izzo.

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Correct. The even more obscure (perhaps most obscure) question is who threw that interception. It wasn't Bledsoe.

VJCPatriot said:

I'm ok with losing Jimmy G as Brady has shown he has plenty left in the tank and can win us more championships.

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I'm especially okay with it as Brady has won us more championships. We don't know if JG ever gets a ring. Brady not only had them before the inflection point, he's won them after. During that whole drama, by the way, my reaction was "whatever they do, in Bill I trust" (standard reaction.) You, and I believe, ESPN, are saying, we know for certain that BB was all for dumping TFB. SI? Somebody. That big "insider scoop" article about how it was like BB and Kraft oil wrestling or something. I don't know it's true, because (a) I've never heard it from BB, and (b) I don't know the reporting to be true. It might be pretty good, it might not be. I've seen what people do with the Pats in the press, so I tend to say "okay, maybe I'll believe that one day when it shows up in a BB memoir."

But the AB move seems a lot more motivated by PR than an actually sound football move. Others have mentioned Kraft's hypocrisy in this manner as he was caught red handed in a massage parlor. But he cuts AB because of a stupid text he sent to his ex?

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I don't know that the massage parlor is same thing, but let's just move on. The AB thing was a whirlwind saga, you are right, and you are right, it was bizarre. I think letting AB go might have had something to do with a vetting conversation, where AB is asked (by Kraft, BB, whoever,) what else there is about him, and he swears there's nothing else out there. And they say good, b/c look at clause 23 f (or whatever), which says if you are in embarassing sex crime trouble you are off the team, also if you are found using drugs, also if you are found to collect stamps or coins, or have psoriatic arthritis on camera. (That is, they pretty much make him aware they reserve the right to cut him for effing up in any way... and he knows the shyte is floating around out there a foot from the fan, but he lets it blindside them.)

AB to the Pats for the span of a week and a half. We'll never know what he could have really done here with a full season of football. We might have seen some video game numbers popping out. That could have been fun.

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He seemed primed to play pitch n catch with TFB, but once again in Bill (or whoever) I'm trusting. You're right, it might have been a real feast for football eyes... but maybe they just need a year where people hate us just for winning and nothing else.

By the way, that third radio button? Really not our strong suit since that little Hernandez issue.

IcyPatriot said:

I agree ... absolutely love watching AB play and it is football at its' best.

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Outside of the boneheaded text message (which I maintain was as stupid as it gets, although he was simply trying to defend himself the best way he knew how), Antonio was not a problem for the team. The two weeks leading up to the Dolphins game, he was quiet, had a great practice, hell he even wore the two different numbers we gave him and didn't whine about 84.

He was CLEARLY buying into the Patriot way. Of course, outside of the text.

From a football standpoint, this move hurt the team. The MOMENT we let him go, we hear about Jalen wanting out of Jax, Edelman gets his ribs checked, Gordon damned near loses a finger and we lose more guys on the O-Line. I'm not saying there is a causation, but this is why you don't make rash decisions like that for one mistake.

I've said this before, but we didn't release Brady for Deflategate and we didn't fire Bill for Spygate, two situations (though completely overblown) that actually cost the team. Spygate in particular hit us kind of hard, considering the draft picks and fines.

To me, I understand why the team did what they did, but I don't like it because of the precedent. We've always been embroiled in "scandals" (using that term loosely), so why all of a sudden do we release an all world talent for a mistake? It has all to do with the allegations against him, and I cannot be convinced different. If he'd sent that text in a vacuum, he'd have been at practice this week.

I think the most irksome thing about all this is that he will 100% be back in the league sometime soon.

At this point much more okay with trading Garoppolo than I am with drafting a goddamn running back (who's being far outperformed by Rex Burkhead and maybe even Brandon Bolden) over Lamar Jackson.

Th3Birdman said:

Outside of the boneheaded text message (which I maintain was as stupid as it gets, although he was simply trying to defend himself the best way he knew how), Antonio was not a problem for the team. The two weeks leading up to the Dolphins game, he was quiet, had a great practice, hell he even wore the two different numbers we gave him and didn't whine about 84.

He was CLEARLY buying into the Patriot way. Of course, outside of the text.

From a football standpoint, this move hurt the team. The MOMENT we let him go, we hear about Jalen wanting out of Jax, Edelman gets his ribs checked, Gordon damned near loses a finger and we lose more guys on the O-Line. I'm not saying there is a causation, but this is why you don't make rash decisions like that for one mistake.

I've said this before, but we didn't release Brady for Deflategate and we didn't fire Bill for Spygate, two situations (though completely overblown) that actually cost the team. Spygate in particular hit us kind of hard, considering the draft picks and fines.

To me, I understand why the team did what they did, but I don't like it because of the precedent. We've always been embroiled in "scandals" (using that term loosely), so why all of a sudden do we release an all world talent for a mistake? It has all to do with the allegations against him, and I cannot be convinced different. If he'd sent that text in a vacuum, he'd have been at practice this week.

I think the most irksome thing about all this is that he will 100% be back in the league sometime soon.

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Clearly buying into the Patriot Way and sending texts to this woman inside the pats facility don’t really go hand in hand. I like AB the football player but when he’s clearly focused on all the drama outside of football he’s not “All-in” on football which IMO is a key ingredient to the Patriot Way.

dreighver said:

Brown texted one of the women 48 hours after being explicitly told by the league (and presumably the team) to not contact these people, in addition to multiple social media posts painting himself as a persecuted victim.

Had he not sent those incredibly stupid (and malicious) texts he'd still be on the team and Kraft wouldn't have stepped in.

It's not about the allegations; it's about Brown's inability to control himself.

Folks need to stop blaming Kraft for texts that Brown pressed 'send' on.

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Source on the league telling Brown this?

maust1013 said:

Yes and since we already know what your reaction will be when that time comes it's only fair to make mine known when the sportstalk media that will then be trumpeting that line in terms of the juice being worth the squeeze.

Because he wouldn't have been on the roster at that point anyway. If AB were with a team right now he'd be on the exempt list.

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Exempt list? According to whom? All there as been reported is he may be if on a team. So..the price is right...