Shout-out for Danny Shelton!!! (and in a way, BB... not that he needs it :-)

KontradictioN said:

Three reasons: 1) he’s flat out playing better, 2) a full year in the system, and 3) they stopped using him as if he’s Wilfork or Washington.

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I'd wager that the evolution of that was that it became clear he wouldn't fill that style nose tackle role well, so he lost the weight and went with a somewhat different style. Good result for everyone, and probably for his longevity as a player and a human.

betterthanthealternative said:

I'd wager that the evolution of that was that it became clear he wouldn't fill that style nose tackle role well, so he lost the weight and went with a somewhat different style. Good result for everyone, and probably for his longevity as a player and a human.

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Isn't he playing there still? I think the big difference is that he is much more explosive this year and can get to the ball carrier much quicker.

KontradictioN said:

Three reasons: 1) he’s flat out playing better, 2) a full year in the system, and 3) they stopped using him as if he’s Wilfork or Washington.

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But this can't be with the way you spoke about him last year?

SBLIII said:

Isn't he playing there still? I think the big difference is that he is much more explosive this year and can get to the ball carrier much quicker.

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He’s still playing DT but, from what I’m seeing, he’s lining up at 3-tech more and the defensive front as a whole playing in a more downhill, attacking style and one-gapping more this year than I can remember in previous years. Shouldn’t come as a surprise. The Patriots tailor their schemes on both sides of the ball year after year to fit their personnel instead of sticking with the same scheme and forcing their personnel to fit it.

signbabybrady said:

But this can't be with the way you spoke about him last year?

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Sure it can. He sucked last year. He wouldn’t have gotten benched if that weren’t true. The Patriots themselves didn’t even seem sure that his play would continue to improve, ergo he sat on the open market as long as he did.

KontradictioN said:

Sure it can. He sucked last year. He wouldn’t have gotten benched if that weren’t true. The Patriots themselves didn’t even seem sure that his play would continue to improve, ergo he sat on the open market as long as he did.

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Please, you know how hard you were on him. You did not think this was possible.

He's looking good but really everybody has been looking amazing. I wanna see this D go against a real offense.

signbabybrady said:

Please, you know how hard you were on him. You did not think this was possible.

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Neither did they, clearly. Hence him sitting on the open market for as long as he did and being a game day inactive for the majority of last season. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make here. He sucked ass last year. I noted what changed. That doesn’t dispel the fact that he sucked ass last year, though.

KontradictioN said:

Neither did they, clearly. Hence him sitting on the open market for as long as he did and being a game day inactive for the majority of last season. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make here. He sucked ass last year. I noted what changed. That doesn’t dispel the fact that he sucked ass last year, though.

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They did infact resign him so clearly not. And he was active for 13 games so no he wasn't inactive for a majority. But just pointing out how wrong you were on good ole Shelton and more to the point I was right lol.

randomk1 said:

He's looking good but really everybody has been looking amazing. I wanna see this D go against a real offense.

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Agreed. Need to see more. Not sure this defense holds KC under 27.

I am glad BB did not see the statements on Shelton on this board a few months ago.

oceansizer said:

I am glad BB did not see the statements on Shelton on this board a few months ago.

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He would have cut him for sure.

signbabybrady said:

They did infact resign him so clearly not. And he was active for 13 games so no he wasn't inactive for a majority. But just pointing out how wrong you were on good ole Shelton and more to the point I was right lol.

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They were in no hurry. And all signs lead to them believing this was a depth signing before he actually won the job. Why would that be? Why would they sign Pennel before him? If you believe a guy is going to be that great, you don’t let him sit on the open market like that. It is what it is. I’m very happy he’s playing better, but I certainly wasn’t wrong about him sucking last season. That should be common knowledge. You don’t become a healthy scratch without sucking first. Finally...

signbabybrady said:

Guy and Pennel in goal line work was the highlight of the day. Pennel might be the biggest upgrade at any position from last year.

Collins was flying around too.

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...you definitely didn’t believe his play would improve. Not if you believed then that Pennel would be that big of an upgrade. It is what it is. Unless you want to go on record and say that he was good during the regular season last year, which is the inverse of what common wisdom is, I think we are in agreement. He sucked last season, played better in the playoffs, and is better this year so far. We’re all the better for it.

The other day I heard someone say that we forget sometimes that the success or failure of a lot of players is dependent on where that player winds up playing. The example was Josh Rosen, who was with the league's worst team last season, and with an historically bad team this year....and getting killed. Counting college, Rosen is now working with his 5th new OC in 5 years. His career in the NFL is likely to end in failure. However put him in a good situation and all that might have changed.

Same with Shelton. If he were in a situation where the coach wasn't as flexible and committed to only ask what a player does well and then let him do it, he might have been out of the league in a year or two.

It also shows just what makes Bill the GOAT. He literally says, last year wasn't Shelton's fault it was MINE, for not putting into places where he could succeed. He pretty much said the same about Chung's second stint with us. You don't hear that kind of admission from anyone else.

So for now Bill will allow Shelton to do what he does, BUT at the same time continue to work with him on things that he doesn't do well, and over the next few years we will potentially see a player to DOES do multiple things well.

That's a key teaching policy that separates the Pats. They are constantly working with players to improve year to year. Not just the young players but ALL players. Fortunately every player gets to see the EXEMPLAR of that philosophy, Tom Brady. When they watch a guy who is an acknowledged GOAT, work furiously to keep finding ways to improve HIS game. How can they do anything less?

patfanken said:

Same with Shelton. If he were in a situation where the coach wasn't as flexible and committed to only ask what a player does well and then let him do it, he might have been out of the league in a year or two.

It also shows just what makes Bill the GOAT. He literally says, last year wasn't Shelton's fault it was MINE, for not putting into places where he could succeed. He pretty much said the same about Chung's second stint with us. You don't hear that kind of admission from anyone else.

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This reminds me of a self-development book I read in school. The very rough gist of it was about how many individuals spend so much time investing in improving their flaws to bring them to “normal” levels, when really they should be focusing on maximizing existing positive attributes that will lead to their highest and best use.

Not exactly a line by line comparison with Belichick and coaching, but I think it very much applies. Sure the ideal is to develop well-rounded players, but he better than anyone knows that the bulk of his efforts are best spent on maximizing a player’s area of highest use. It seems like many other coaches get in the habit of identifying a player that excels in a particular area, and then overvalue the likelihood that it can be transferable to other areas.

One of the other things that sets Bill apart is his insanely high level of self-awareness. Like in cases such as your Chung example, he may make mistakes here and there when it comes to incorporating a player’s talents. However, his ability to self-assess allows him to identify any flaws in his decision making process, and ultimately what corrections should be made.

I wonder if Pennell had kicked ass what would Bill have done w/ Danny.

I still think they will need two fattys

robertweathers said:

I wonder if Pennell had kicked ass what would Bill have done w/ Danny.

I still think they will need two fattys

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Kept him for depth. The contract isn’t necessarily back-breaking and he has experience in the system.

KontradictioN said:

They were in no hurry. And all signs lead to them believing this was a depth signing before he actually won the job. Why would that be? Why would they sign Pennel before him? If you believe a guy is going to be that great, you don’t let him sit on the open market like that. It is what it is. I’m very happy he’s playing better, but I certainly wasn’t wrong about him sucking last season. That should be common knowledge. You don’t become a healthy scratch without sucking first. Finally...



...you definitely didn’t believe his play would improve. Not if you believed then that Pennel would be that big of an upgrade. It is what it is. Unless you want to go on record and say that he was good during the regular season last year, which is the inverse of what common wisdom is, I think we are in agreement. He sucked last season, played better in the playoffs, and is better this year so far. We’re all the better for it.

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It's not hard I was way wrong about Pennel.


Trust me you don't want me to start grabbing quotes from last year on this subject. Let's just say I still thought Shelton could help us last year after he was a healthy a scratch and you were not to nice about him.

randomk1 said:

He's looking good but really everybody has been looking amazing. I wanna see this D go against a real offense.

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If the standard for a "good" offense these days is over 25ppg then it's BAL 11/2 so basically a month and a 1/2 away.

signbabybrady said:

It's not hard I was way wrong about Pennel.


Trust me you don't want me to start grabbing quotes from last year on this subject. Let's just say I still thought Shelton could help us last year after he was a healthy a scratch and you were not to nice about him.

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Go ahead. You seem to have me mixed up with Andy in thinking I give a **** about being wrong about anything I say on here. He sucked. He’s playing better. That’s not saying anything other than the facts. And you weren’t wrong about just Pennel, you were wrong about Shelton, too. In summary, you were right there with me in being wrong. Congrats.