Brady, Brees, Manning

Ice_Ice_Brady · Sep 14, 2019

Seels said:
Brees v Manning isn't even close and never will be. Manning is at worst the third best quarterback ever. A guy with 1 SB, 1 all pro, and 0 MVP isn't close.

I wouldn’t say Manning is “at worst” the third best ever because you have Brady, Montana, Graham, Starr, and Unitas, who all have close to bulletproof arguments for top-5 all-time. I could see a good argument that Manning is #3 post-merger. I do agree that there is no debate with Manning vs. Brees. It’s a guy spent much of his career chasing all-time legends vs a guy who is/was chasing the best QBs of his own era.

TB_Helmet · Sep 15, 2019

If Brees is out for any length of time after today’s injury, Brady is almost guaranteed to break Peyton’s career TD record later this year, barring disaster.

Patsfanin Philly · Sep 15, 2019

At the end of week 2, both Brees and Brady have 522 passing touchdowns ( regular season only) chasing Manning's 539. If Brees is out for a long period of time, Brady may the first to pass Manning this season and it would take away from an interesting neck and neck.

upstater1 · Sep 15, 2019

Seels said:
Brees v Manning isn't even close and never will be. Manning is at worst the third best quarterback ever. A guy with 1 SB, 1 all pro, and 0 MVP isn't close.

At worst?

Really?

He doesn't make my top 3, that's for sure.

QuantumMechanic · Sep 16, 2019

This thread prompted me to go looking at various career leaderboards at PFR...

Huh. Chad Pennington is still #4 all-time in completion percentage (Brees is #1, Manning is #7, Brady is #14).

TB12TheGoat · Sep 16, 2019

Saints fans sure are obsessed with passing stats...(and it seems most REALLY don’t like Brady)

At this point I would be thrilled to learn he is out until November. I'm terrified that our season is over, and that Brady will have a cake walk to the records.

Zarozzor · Sep 16, 2019

TB12TheGoat said:
Saints fans sure are obsessed with passing stats...(and it seems most REALLY don’t like Brady)

Yeah this is pretty well known. I remember last year when he broke the passing yards record, it was like a bigger celebration with him and Sean Payton than it was postgame after 28-3 lol

Ice_Ice_Brady · Sep 16, 2019

If Brees misses a lot of time, Brady has a shot at an MS-Word generated certificate.

glm · Sep 16, 2019

Nikolai said:
This really reminds me that I need to update and finish my analytical thingy.

I compared across eras by analyzing each player against their contemporaries and then normalizing all the results to the current season. Brady looks remarkably good, even statistically. I'd like to start really digging one day and do the outdoors/dome/weather comparisons, but that would take a lot of time and all of this pays way way less than my day job.

Years ago I was doing a similar concept. I was comparing the QBs across eras by looking at how they performed against every single defense they faced and judging the defenses they faced by how they performed against every QB they faced except for the QB I was rating.

Then water spilled on my laptop which destroyed it and I lost all of my data.

glm · Sep 16, 2019

Seels said:
Brees v Manning isn't even close and never will be. Manning is at worst the third best quarterback ever. A guy with 1 SB, 1 all pro, and 0 MVP isn't close.

Of course it's close. They're both huge stat padding dome QBs who post insane numbers in the regular season.

Now while Manning has won 2 SBs, this was purely due to his team dragging him along while he was screaming and crying doing whatever he could to take an early trip home. Manning also has the most one and dones in NFL history. He also has the most pick sixes in playoff history. And he was also on the receiving ends of one of the biggest ass beatings in SB history.

Drew Brees on the other hand actually plays great in the playoffs. Plus his only SB win he beat Manning to win it. Also Brees definitely deserved the MVP over Manning in 2009.

Deus Irae · Sep 16, 2019

Why do we keep having these threads evolve into ranking threads? The 'elders' hierarchy of the 2000s is already set, barring one hell of a final act by Rodgers/Brees/Roethlisberger, and now we're just waiting for the young guns to break through.

Brady
P. Manning
Rodgers
Brees
Roethlisberger
Rivers

Warner is the only one of the group that can't definitively be slotted, and that's because you have to decide how much to weigh his middle seasons. He's not top 2, and he's no worse than 7th.

Viper652 · Sep 16, 2019

Manning is overrated and Brees is underrated imo.

Both dome quarterbacks

Viper652 · Sep 16, 2019

Tb12goesinya said:
You're right it absolutely is unfair to compare players from different eras.

As far as top 5 players vs 5 top QBs it depends what scope you look through.. If we are comparing players amongst their positions and how they dominate then certainly Lawrence Taylor and Jerry Rice are right near the top of the list..

..but if you look at a ranking of most valuable football players throughout history then you can make a case the top 10 is all QBs. I am from the camp that believes in this day in age a QB is the most valuable player every single season..but I digress on that point

So the way I rank all time QBs(which is not quite fair) is that this era of QB has more on their plate and thus would simply be a better QB in the narrow way I look at it.

1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Brees
4. Montana
5. Rodgers

I'm the first to say Montana is overrated, but he's better than Manning

Viper652 · Sep 16, 2019

I will go to my grave defending Elway.

He DRAGGED those 80s Broncos teams to the Superbowl.

He's the opposite of Manning

TommyD4207 · Sep 16, 2019

upstater1 said:
I'd rather have Marino than Manning, Brees and Rodgers.

Well, I'll put it this way.

I'd rather have long hair 'fro Dan Marino over those three.

Short hair, couldn't win donkey **** Dan Marino would be third or fourth on that list.

upstater1 · Sep 16, 2019

Viper652 said:
I will go to my grave defending Elway.

He DRAGGED those 80s Broncos teams to the Superbowl.

He's the opposite of Manning

The problem with Elway is that he was wildly inaccurate and couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. Strong arm, but not a good passer.

Tb12goesinya · Sep 18, 2019

Is that 'one trick pony' a hofer in your opinion?

Ice_Ice_Brady said:
QBs have acted as ancillary offensive coordinators since professional football started. Quarterbacks as far back as the 1950s and 1960s were changing the plays, calling their own plays, etc. and have been responsible for leading the film study and strategic path against opponents. Jim Kelly ran the no-huddle while at Buffalo while Manning was entering the NFL. Manning’s offensive concept was actually extremely simple, and during the times in his career where a more complex scheme was needed (rare times a player was injured, with a new offense Denver in 2012), he struggled.

One-Trick Pony

The media narrative sure was strong about Mr. Line of Scrimmage, but facts don’t support it.

NashuaPats · Sep 18, 2019

upstater1 said:
The problem with Elway is that he was wildly inaccurate and couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. Strong arm, but not a good passer.

Wow. I’m not a fan of his, but the guy went to 4 SBs winning twice. He didn’t accomplish that by not being a good passer. He’s a HOFer and earned it. He’s not at Brady’s level though. No one is, Brady stands alone.

Ice_Ice_Brady · Sep 18, 2019

Tb12goesinya said:
Is that 'one trick pony' a hofer in your opinion?

No doubt Peyton is a Hall of Famer.

upstater1 · Sep 18, 2019

NashuaPats said:
Wow. I’m not a fan of his, but the guy went to 4 SBs winning twice. He didn’t accomplish that by not being a good passer. He’s a HOFer and earned it. He’s not at Brady’s level though. No one is, Brady stands alone.

I'd say they won by chop blocking and running. They were unstoppable. But he had huge problems with accuracy. He use to drive the ball into the turf often.

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