Antonio Brown

supafly said:

Of course. My comment is dripping with sarcasm. Try and soak it all up.

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jjjuuussst checking you go the original sarcasm of my post (though why I doubted your sarcastic understanding acumen? I have no friggin idea! )

MainePatsFan26 said:

I won't admit any fallacy because you haven't demonstrated any fallacy through your supposed guiding me to a new line of thinking. All I've said is that these distractions place us in a spot where we're less likely to beat Miami than we would be without the Brown signing. If the controversy with Brown settles down, then he will be a great asset to the team. But all evidence suggests that if it isn't this controversy it will be another one.

If they lose, I won't come on here to gloat. I didn't bring any of this up to hedge my bets for who will win in Miami.

My question to you is at what point you'd be willing to release him. If the media proves he raped this woman, are you fine with keeping him because they are in a greater position to win with Brown? It seems you're position is that nothing matters except on the field play, team chemistry and morale be damned.

I also have to question how a difference of opinion can be quantified as "right" or "dead wrong." Where are you getting your "proof" of being right when this whole discussion is a matter of opinion?

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I would absolutely want the team to release him if there was strong evidence that raped this woman, without question. I have not said at any point that chemistry, morale, or anything of that nature is irrelevant. I’ve pointed out that you’re talking out of your ass in claiming that you know the team has been effected negatively in any way. If you as a fan can’t don’t like rooting for Brown, I can get on board with that, but you basically claim to have inside information about the locker room.

The fact is you have absolutely nothing to support your claim that the team the team is worse off with Brown, and you continue to double down on it. The team signed a superstar wide receiver at a price they rarely go to, and you act like you are so certain that his value is far outweighed by the distraction that you’ve made in your own mind and projected onto the locker room of a real team.

And even if it is clear and obvious that the team is better off with him against Miami, you won’t admit the fallacy of your thinking, in your own words. What else is there to say? You want to say baseless things and then later claim you were right to say baseless things. I see you are already backtracking with your “If this controversy dies down...” but you’d rather not even risk that to begin with.

Right if you’re right. Right if you’re wrong. You’ve added absolutely nothing to the discussion about Brown, other than to say you’ve got your bases covered.

NENGFAN said:

I agree. It’s funny when other posters proclaim a point of view as dead wrong without any proof. It’s an informed opinion. These distractions are not good for the team. I don’t think anyone can say otherwise.

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Please explain how the claim that the team is weakened, locker room morale lower, and the team is better off without Brown is an “informed opinion” and not total stab in the dark...I can’t wait to hear this one. Others have offered up indicators that the opposite is true, including several former Patriot players commenting about the situation.

You guys think the Patriots players are in the same mindset as you. It’s inane.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

If Brown works out in the long run, I hope you won’t feel like you deserved to be a fan of a championship team in any way. Your reaction to adversity is embarrassing. That’s essentially a Roger Goodell way of looking at things in not caring about whether or not he’s actually guilty because you don’t like the image it carries with it, even if he’s being railroaded.

How can you be a fan through Spygate, Deflategate, and constant fake or exaggerated stories about the Patriots and come to these conclusions? Your take on Brown’s social media stuff is somewhat legit, except that he hasn’t been given any chance yet with the Patriots, who have very different rules, standards, and culture than the two circus organizations where he played previously.

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I’ve been trying really hard not to comment on the AB situation and so far have been successful but to castigate a Patriots fan because “they have a bad reaction to adversity”, where the “adversity” is a rape allegation against a player who hasn’t played a snap for the team, is incredibly ****ed up.

This is nothing like SpyGate or DeflateGate. Those were clear railroadings of our team with no basis in reality solely because the league had an agenda, and they were both related to on field behavior (or lack thereof).

This is a serious allegation (as the team and individual players have all said). I know that people here have made up their minds one way or the other but the reality is nobody knows what happened, this story broke 24 hours ago and even if there are some hints that the woman is making everything up, it’s ok to be a Patriots fan and at the same time not immediately completely support this new guy who, while talented, obviously has serious character issues that we’ve seen on display in plenty of other situations than the current one.

I’ve spent countless hours defending this team against spygate and deflategate. I’m not going to do the same thing to defend Antonio Brown against rape allegations. Someone else can do that. It’s not any different than a Lakers fan defending Kobe and if Brown were on any other team, the vast majority of this board would be crushing him right now.

MainePatsFan26 said:

I understand people took this to mean that Belichick is somehow looking at this forum to make decisions. That wasn't my intention. Rather, I'm pointing out the storm around Brown that is consuming everything. No one is talking about Miami. It is all about Brown on here and, if the team as fellow humans are anything like us reading the press around Brown, that makes me worried we might have a trap game on our hands.

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As far as I know, AB was practicing with the team yesterday. Hopefully they had a good session and hopefully they see that he adds to our passing attack.

As far as media and circus, actually I think some amount of stonewalling the media, and “us against them” mentality and the mental fortitude and sense of unity that requires has always been healthy for this team. If the team largely feels that AB is innocent here they will rally behind him.

TB_Helmet said:

I’ve been trying really hard not to comment on the AB situation and so far have been successful but to castigate a Patriots fan because “they have a bad reaction to adversity”, where the “adversity” is a rape allegation against a player who hasn’t played a snap for the team, is incredibly ****ed up.

This is nothing like SpyGate or DeflateGate. Those were clear railroadings of our team with no basis in reality solely because the league had an agenda, and they were both related to on field behavior (or lack thereof).

This is a serious allegation (as the team and individual players have all said). I know that people here have made up their minds one way or the other but the reality is nobody knows what happened, this story broke 24 hours ago and even if there are some hints that the woman is making everything up, it’s ok to be a Patriots fan and at the same time not immediately completely support this new guy who, while talented, obviously has serious character issues that we’ve seen on display in plenty of other situations than the current one.

I’ve spent countless hours defending this team against spygate and deflategate. I’m not going to do the same thing to defend Antonio Brown against rape allegations. Someone else can do that. It’s not any different than a Lakers fan defending Kobe and if Brown were on any other team, the vast majority of this board would be crushing him right now.

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NENGFAN said:

And I actually don’t want to defend this guy. Defending BB, Brady, Kraft, even Chung...is something organic as they are Patriots. This guy is not a Patriot and all his prior history is now becoming our history. If he was still with the Raiders and all this assault news broke, we would be deriding AB and thanking our stars we didn’t sign him. I feel this was all BB - he wanted AB so badly.

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Brown isn't "one of us", so you're going to base your thoughts on a player being accused of rape on his Patriot-ness. If you formed your opinion of Kobe Bryan's rape allegations based on your team allegiance, that's your problem, but I can see why both of you are triggered here. You keep mixing in whether athletes are guys you root for or not, and stating how serious rape charges are. I think you need to sort out your thoughts. I like your plan a little better, which is to wait until we know more facts, better than the other plan that the team should release him, guilty or not, which is NENGFAN 's stated opinion.

Regardless, it's weird you'd say that my post is ****ed up, when both of you seem to be unable to process that a rape charge has been made against a person without categorizing whether or not that person is defensible by you, based on if he's a "true Patriot" or not. Clearly @NENGFAN thinks in a similar way; I mean, he's apparently defending Chung while there's very little known about that case, and anyone else who is "a Patriot."

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Brown isn't "one of us", so you're going to base my thoughts on a player being accused of rape on his Patriot-ness. If you formed your opinion of Kobe Bryan's rape allegations based on your team allegiance, that's your problem, but I can see why both of you are triggered here. You keep mixing in whether athletes are guys you root for or not, and stating how serious rape charges are. I think you need to sort out your thoughts. I like your plan a little better, which is to wait until we know more facts, better than the other plan that the team should release him, guilty or not, which is NENGFAN 's stated opinion.

Regardless, it's weird you'd say that my post is ****ed up, when both of you seem to be unable to process that a rape charge has been made against a person without categorizing whether or not that person is defensible by you, based on if he's a "true Patriot" or not. Clearly @NENGFAN thinks in a similar way; I mean, he's apparently defending Chung while there's very little known about that case, and anyone else who is "a Patriot."

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I just called out your post because you basically said someone isn’t a real Patriots fan if they don’t defend Brown the same way they defended SpyGate. Nice misuse of “triggered”’ though.

My opinion, if BB was caught by surprise by these allegations and was never given a heads up by AB and his agent I don’t think he would of been at practice today. That would of been a dishonest move and something the team wouldn’t of been happy about to have dropped on them. I expect the Pats were given a heads up by Drew from the get to, I don’t see how you hide something like this, it’s bad business. Just my thoughts, I could be dead wrong.

TB_Helmet said:

I just called out your post because you basically said someone isn’t a real Patriots fan if they don’t defend Brown the same way they defended SpyGate. Nice misuse of “triggered”’ though.

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You completely misinterpreted my post.

I don’t give a crap if people want to defend him or not. I’m not sure it’s possible to know or be objective about that, but his guilt or innocence presumption shouldn’t be based on whether or not he’s a real Patriot.

Saying he should be released, guilty or not, due to an accusation is what I called out that poster for and rightfully so. After the Patriots, as well as many sports teams in the 24/7 sports news cycle, have gotten dragged through the mud for either doing nothing wrong or highly exaggerated infractions, we should know better than most that truth is often mixed up with agenda and not be so quick to drop the hammer on “the new guy.”

Teej said:

I don't think they settle because they already disclosed a whole lot of stuff.

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Do not think either party want to go through the "discovery" process...

Let’s form a circle, hold hands, and share.

Not sure this is a barometer of about anything, but yesterday on Pro Football Talk all ten of the most commented on stories had to do with AB.... this morning it continues...

My review of various national news sites this AM is everyone had some story on AB...

If this forum is a microcosm of anything we are in line with what PFT is finding as is the rest of the news world ...

As much as I think this is vastly overplayed, it is what it is... a salacious story the people love to read in their hopes it will somehow bring about the demise of the Patriots.. then there is sportstalk radio, never mind to early to rant and rave about the mediots..

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Right if you’re right. Right if you’re wrong. You’ve added absolutely nothing to the discussion about Brown, other than to say you’ve got your bases covered.

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Unless I'm suddenly the reincarnation of Adam Schefter, I'm not sure why/how I would have inside information about the team. Never once did I say that I spoke to, say, Patrick Chung and felt his morale was low. I was speaking about my opinion of what a situation like this does to a team, having played on a team before.

What confuses me is how you've disagreed and insulted me at every turn, but then state that I've added nothing to the discussion. If I've added nothing, then why have you been so up in arms about what I've added?

The league has not done a good job being judge, jury, and executioner in these cases. I don't necessarily blame them, there is a reason the rule of law is often black or white.

In this day in age of PC culture and metoo movement, the NFL must put a stop to the ongoing circuses.

I take rape, child abuse, and domestic violence very seriously, but the only logical solution to me is that the player is free to play unless he is charged by the actual authorities. It may create an awkward situation here and there for teams, sponsors, teammates etc etc. but to me it is better then the circus PC pressure alternative.

AB makes us better. He’s still here. Let’s win & deal with him when the time comes.

MainePatsFan26 said:

I was speaking about my opinion of what a situation like this does to a team, having played on a team before.

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Weren't you the guy who 3 games in last year panicked and wanted to trade away assets on the team because in your opinion they didn't have "it" ?

Lets check quickly one of the most ******ed threads of last year and my personal nominee for the annual "I DON'T CARE I CAN'T STAND IT" award:

Purge the Doubters and Weaklings

And I'd like to purge the board of the apologists who can't see this season is different. This isn't a squad that comes back in games or across the season. This is a team that folds under pressure. Look at the turnovers in crucial moments the past two weeks: this team just doesn't have "it."

Laugh all you want. This team needs to remove the negativity that is infecting the roster and do some rebuilding. We skated by with a diminishing roster for years. Now we look like last year's Seahawks team wondering when it all slipped away.

I want to make some moves asap to get talent around Brady before he retires at the end of the year because we didn't see the writing on the wall with this roster.

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Yep. And that is just one of the posts.


Why exactly are you surprised if people don't really agree with another one of your premature "opinions" ?

AB arrived here with a clean slate. If he creates issues BB and the team will deal with it appropriately. They have dealt with worse **** before.

(It was actually a “guy”, but I voted Ray)

reamer said:

Most important is D20, actually.

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If you roll a Nat 20 during draft day they Patriots will actually pick the player you want.

MainePatsFan26 said:

Unless I'm suddenly the reincarnation of Adam Schefter, I'm not sure why/how I would have inside information about the team. Never once did I say that I spoke to, say, Patrick Chung and felt his morale was low. I was speaking about my opinion of what a situation like this does to a team, having played on a team before.

What confuses me is how you've disagreed and insulted me at every turn, but then state that I've added nothing to the discussion. If I've added nothing, then why have you been so up in arms about what I've added?

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BB does not allow snapface or Instachat in the locker room, so I think we're fine.

luuked said:

AB arrived here with a clean slate. If he creates issues BB and the team will deal with it appropriately. They have dealt with worse **** before.

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I'm glad you brought my post back up. Our team was in a tough position multiple times last season because of a variety of factors including a general malaise. We ended up 11-5, the worst record we had since 2009 when we got curb stomped by the Ravens. Towards the end of the year, we looked abysmal at times. Then, things clicked into place and Dee Ford was a moron. On paper, that team was the worst Patriots club in a decade but pulled it all together in spite of earlier issues when it mattered most. I was proud of that team, but let's not kid ourselves that they were one of the better Patriot rosters.

A large part of what allowed them to thrive down the stretch was finding a good rapport with each other and being selfless (i.e. the Patriot Way). When you look at Antonio Brown as a teammate, you see an immensely talented guy. But you also see a guy who, based on his history, will air dirty laundry in public.

Here's hoping this clean slate works out, but let's not pretend the rest of the world cares to give the man a fresh start -- especially if he raped this woman. And let's not play the "she's lying... isn't it obvious?" game. That is demeaning to all survivors of sexual assaults who fear being further humiliated by a suspicious public.