Duke traded to Broncos

patfanken · Aug 30, 2019

Marqui said:
Of all of Bill's ATROCIOUS 2nd round DB picks, who's the worst: Terrance Weatley, Tavon Wilson, Jordan Richards, Cyrus Jones, or Duke Dawson?

I actually thought Dowling could cover and his career was more derailed by injuries rather than pure suckyness like the others. And thank God looks like they broke the cycle with Williams.

Cyrus Jones was NOT a bad player. Reports are he's a likely starter for the Ravens. There are a LOT of situations that can cause a player to get let go. Wilson was stuck in the S glut that was McCourty, Chung, Harmon, but he's been a productive starter for the Lions for 3 years now. Dawson was the 7th man in a 6 man depth chart, but the guys he was behind make up the best and deepest secondary in the league. He probably was good enough to make 90% of the rest of the league's rosters

Of that group, only Richards was an out and out failure. The others were proven to be good football players who for some reason or another just didn't fit in this system. Either there was a glut of other good player at their positions or injuries and how they affected their development.

BTW- It just occurred to me that every one of the players you listed were DB's, a position of strength of the Pats for many years. Curious, don't you think? You know what I think it indicates? Bill shows that is one step ahead of the game when he realized the only way to compete with today's rules and passing attacks is to be great in the secondary. And that is why we see him year after year loading up on DB's

As much as I love tall CB's, I was irate with the Williams pick, just because we looked so strong at CB to begin with....and I was wrong again. Bill understood that you can never be too good in the secondary and Williams was a unique talent that you couldn't pass up, even in a crowded CB room. And after a slow start, he has shown why this pick will end up in the Gronk, Volmer category in the end. He will be an amazing match up asset this year.

PatsFan2 · Aug 30, 2019

I am amazed they got something for him.

TheRainMaker · Aug 30, 2019

203Pat said:
Do you think Kraft would say to Bill what happened with Dawson and he would just flash his rings smugly and walk away?

This is what BB would do.

Peachhead · Aug 30, 2019

203Pat said:
Hard to be a worse second round pick than Jordan Richards but Duke did his best.

Dowling was the worst, then Richards. IMO

Family · Aug 30, 2019

Peachhead said:
Dowling was the worst, then Richards. IMO

I say Richards was the worst because there was no hope. He was 100% healthy most of the time.

I saw some potential in Dowling. He looked like an NFL player the seven snaps he was healthy.

You would say Gronk was the worst if that had gone south.

SHOWTIME15 · Aug 30, 2019

Peachhead said:
Dowling was the worst, then Richards. IMO

Dowling was injured all the time, Richards was just bad

BennyBledsoe · Aug 30, 2019

Oh look, another second round defensive back that did nothing for the team. How shocking.

BradyFTW! · Aug 30, 2019

Peachhead said:
Dowling was the worst, then Richards. IMO

Dowling showed flashes of being good before his career got derailed by injuries. It didn't work out, but I can at least see what the Patriots saw in him, and with better injury luck I think he could have been a good player. Richards, OTOH, was just bad IMO.

Kdo5 · Aug 30, 2019

SBLIII said:
It really is. He is the worst 2nd round CB drafter of all time.

Who was the last one who actually had a career in the league? I thought Darius Butler player for a while in Indy (I think he was second round) but did nothing for us.

Kdo5 · Aug 30, 2019

PatsFan2 said:
I am amazed they got something for him.

I mean we got something for Richards so not too surprised. At least there is a possibility Dawson could do something somewhere else. There was on field proof that Richards was an atrocity and the Falcons still bit.

Sciz · Aug 30, 2019

Kdo5 said:
I mean we got something for Richards so not too surprised. At least there is a possibility Dawson could do something somewhere else. There was on field proof that Richards was an atrocity and the Falcons still bit.

Richards started 12 games for the Falcons, so clearly they thought he was better than the alternatives.

BradyFTW! · Aug 30, 2019

Sciz said:
Richards started 12 games for the Falcons, so clearly they thought he was better than the alternatives.

I think it was less about him being better than the alternatives, and more about him being the last man standing. They lost both starting safeties for the season by week 3, and subsequently finished 31st in the league by defensive DVOA. Richards starting 12 games for the Falcon wasn't exactly by design, and it showed up in the results. I don't think the Falcons were too impressed by what they saw from him, considering that they had no interest in keeping him around.

varjao · Aug 30, 2019

I just felt at the time we picked him he was going to be another on that long list of 2nd round DB busts. On the other hand although I wasn't happy this year when they selected Williams, I felt that he could be the one to break this curse.

TomPatriot · Aug 30, 2019

TommyBrady12 said:
Dowling was injured all the time, Richards was just bad

Too slow for the NFL.

203Pat · Aug 30, 2019

patfanken said:
Cyrus Jones was NOT a bad player. Reports are he's a likely starter for the Ravens. There are a LOT of situations that can cause a player to get let go. Wilson was stuck in the S glut that was McCourty, Chung, Harmon, but he's been a productive starter for the Lions for 3 years now. Dawson was the 7th man in a 6 man depth chart, but the guys he was behind make up the best and deepest secondary in the league. He probably was good enough to make 90% of the rest of the league's rosters

Of that group, only Richards was an out and out failure. The others were proven to be good football players who for some reason or another just didn't fit in this system. Either there was a glut of other good player at their positions or injuries and how they affected their development.

BTW- It just occurred to me that every one of the players you listed were DB's, a position of strength of the Pats for many years. Curious, don't you think? You know what I think it indicates? Bill shows that is one step ahead of the game when he realized the only way to compete with today's rules and passing attacks is to be great in the secondary. And that is why we see him year after year loading up on DB's

As much as I love tall CB's, I was irate with the Williams pick, just because we looked so strong at CB to begin with....and I was wrong again. Bill understood that you can never be too good in the secondary and Williams was a unique talent that you couldn't pass up, even in a crowded CB room. And after a slow start, he has shown why this pick will end up in the Gronk, Volmer category in the end. He will be an amazing match up asset this year.

This is insane. Cyrus Jones is a bad player. He was given every opportunity at both punt return and corner. He failed miserably at corner and couldn't beat Justin Coleman who came into the year having been a healthy scratch multiple times the prior season. He couldn't beat out an undrafted free agent in Johnathan Jones and I cant imagine the trade for Eric Rowe had nothing to do with out Cyrus looked. In addition to being a terrible corner he was an equally terrible punt returner fumbling five times. Then he tore his ACL and that was that.

As for Wilson he's a role player and he's a role player for a team that didn't draft him. This isn't a farm system where we bring guys up and let them walk to a new team where they produce there. He was a bad pick for the New England Patriots.

What in gods name makes you think that a guy who has never played one minute of regular season NFL football could make 90% of the leagues rosters? He has shown absolutely nothing aside from a total lack of ability as a football player. We wouldn't have drafted and re-signed a corner this year had Duke Dawson show the ability one could reasonably expect from a second rounder.

Ring 6 · Aug 30, 2019

BennyBledsoe said:
Oh look, another second round defensive back that did nothing for the team. How shocking.

I wish we could be more like those teams that don’t exist who pick a star with every draft choice. Sadly we are relegated to winning SBs and having fans make sarcastic negative comments.

TomPatriot · Aug 30, 2019

Family said:
Of course it was a bad pick.

But I think Bill just views it differently or he wouldn't keep doing this. To use your analogy, he's swinging for the fences.

If a batter hits .333, do you scream about the strikeouts?

I think he expects perfection. Monte and others probably heard about this pick being a failure at some point: “Where did we go wrong? How can we do better next time?”

BennyBledsoe · Aug 30, 2019

Sadly, all that winning has made fans think the team should be immune to criticism.

BradyFTW! · Aug 30, 2019

patfanken said:
Cyrus Jones was NOT a bad player. Reports are he's a likely starter for the Ravens. There are a LOT of situations that can cause a player to get let go. Wilson was stuck in the S glut that was McCourty, Chung, Harmon, but he's been a productive starter for the Lions for 3 years now. Dawson was the 7th man in a 6 man depth chart, but the guys he was behind make up the best and deepest secondary in the league. He probably was good enough to make 90% of the rest of the league's rosters

Of that group, only Richards was an out and out failure. The others were proven to be good football players who for some reason or another just didn't fit in this system. Either there was a glut of other good player at their positions or injuries and how they affected their development.

BTW- It just occurred to me that every one of the players you listed were DB's, a position of strength of the Pats for many years. Curious, don't you think? You know what I think it indicates? Bill shows that is one step ahead of the game when he realized the only way to compete with today's rules and passing attacks is to be great in the secondary. And that is why we see him year after year loading up on DB's

As much as I love tall CB's, I was irate with the Williams pick, just because we looked so strong at CB to begin with....and I was wrong again. Bill understood that you can never be too good in the secondary and Williams was a unique talent that you couldn't pass up, even in a crowded CB room. And after a slow start, he has shown why this pick will end up in the Gronk, Volmer category in the end. He will be an amazing match up asset this year.

Basically, the Pats secondary depth chart can be summed up as "they're knocking UDFA signings out of the park at such a ridiculous rate that it's forcing second rounders off the roster". Really not the worst problem to have: if the end result is a kickass secondary, I'm not going to complain about how they got there.

Between JC Jackson and Duke Dawson, I don't care which one was an UDFA and which was a 2nd rounder. We invested a 2nd round pick and an UDFA signing in the position, and we got a starter-caliber corner and a bad player who wasn't worth a roster spot for that investment. A ****tier FO that cared more about 'looking good' than building the best roster possible might have kept Dawson around hoping he'd justify his draft spot one day, but I'm glad Belichick isn't thinking like that.

RobertWeathers · Aug 30, 2019

BennyBledsoe said:
Sadly, all that winning has made fans think the team should be immune to criticism.

On the other hand there are fans on this board who think BB should nail every draft pick and refuse to acknowledge the draft is one big guess with a ~20% success rate in the 2nd round. They also refuse to acknowledge the other 31 teams miss on high picks as well.

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