Annual There's No Way _?_ Makes This Team.

luuked said:

There is no way Hoyer doesn't make the team. I don't understand how anyone thinks Stidham would not be eaten alive in real game reps when there is game planning involved.

At this point he should have had like 4-5 INTs against 2s/3s in their most vanilla defenses. That is not to say he is a bad player. But being a rookie QB is hard. Being a rookie QB in a Josh McDaniels offense even harder.

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I hear what your saying....but those interceptions didn't happen. That's like saying so-and-so should have had only 50 yards running but because he popped one for 60 he got 110. The stats are stats....why fudge them to fit a false narrative ?

Shemp had a bad day rushing if you remove several of his longer runs.

Zuma said:

I hear what your saying....but those interceptions didn't happen. That's like saying so-and-so should have had only 50 yards running but because he popped one for 60 he got 110. The stats are stats....why fudge them to fit a false narrative ?

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My issue with what you are saying is that you think the result (i.e. the INT) would be the problem and not the decision making that led to most of those throws. There really is no false narrative at all to point out that he is not there yet.

We are too often making the mistake of equating the outcome (i.e. success/failure) of something as complex as a football play (with 22 players all affecting it) with the performance of a single player.

TheBostonStraggler said:

...and with Dawson seemingly not making a much needed splash this preseason, this looks like Yet Another second-round pick fail unfortunately.

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I agree with the above statement.

luuked said:

My issue with what you are saying is that you think the result (i.e. the INT) would be the problem and not the decision making that led to most of those throws. There really is no false narrative at all to point out that he is not there yet.

We are too often making the mistake of equating the outcome (i.e. success/failure) of something as complex as a football play (with 22 players all affectingbut it) with the performance of a single player.

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Oh I agree he is not there yet either...3 pre-season games don't make him QB2. But he is there before 2019 is over and that experience working closer with Tom will help him be more prepared when possibly taking over at QB1 (Hoyer is not the future answer at QB1).

I think it's important to see progress and see that potential for not just for later in 2019 but for future seasons as well.

Cassius Marsh

UptownPatsFan said:

Cassius Marsh

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One of a very small group of former Patriots that I do not root for.

Zuma said:

Oh I agree he is not there yet either...3 pre-season games don't make him QB2. But he is there before 2019 is over and that experience working closer with Tom will help him be more prepared when possibly taking over at QB1 (Hoyer is not the future answer at QB1).

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I agree with all of this. I just don't think cutting Hoyer for one roster spot and a tiny bit of cap relief is value relative to the risk you are taking with Stidham.

Either way this was Hoyer's last camp with the Pats unless something truly weird happens.

luuked said:

I agree with all of this. I just don't think cutting Hoyer for one roster spot and a tiny bit of cap relief is value relative to the risk you are taking with Stidham.

Either way this was Hoyer's last camp with the Pats unless something truly weird happens.

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I agree but my thing is ...would Stidham grow more quickly if he was QB2 this seaason...working more closely with Tom and the weekly game plan instead of QB3 where he may not. Hoyer is incredibly valuable with the scout team and has an immense understand of the playbook which helps WR's that don't get many reps with Tom.

Their are valid points to both sides of the coin. As always...whatever Bill decides...it's the right decision.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

I’d just like to see ONE game where Devin McCourty and Duron Harmon don’t play. Will that finally give some perspective on how spoiled we’ve been in having the best 1-2 free safety combo in the league for years? I think people attribute the lack of deep passes against the Patriots to “schematic magic” and not the incredible durability, consistency, and high level of play from these two. Especially McCourty, but Harmon is a starting caliber safety playing on a hometown discount as a FS2, just because he wants to be a part of something great.

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Yeah, people have been slagging Harmon since the day he was drafted. He was a "reach" then, and has been under-appreciated since, even though he inevitably closes critical games with interceptions and provided major inspiration for our comeback against Atlanta. I'll feel less secure if he's not back there.

Zuma said:

I agree but my thing is ...would Stidham grow more quickly if he was QB2 this seaason...working more closely with Tom and the weekly game plan instead of QB3 where he may not. Hoyer is incredibly valuable with the scout team and has an immense understand of the playbook which helps WR's that don't get many reps with Tom.

Their are valid points to both sides of the coin. As always...whatever Bill decides...it's the right decision.

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I don't see how Stidham would grow much faster as QB2 than as QB3. In fact you can make the argument that at this stage not having to worry too much about the week to week gameplan but continuing to work on his fundamentals would be more beneficial to him.

It is not like Hoyer is getting a sizable amount of practice reps anyway that Stidham could take over.

I really don't want to argue because I think we both agree that Stidham has shown enough intriguing stuff so far. For me it is just a matter of risk/reward. What happens if Brady misses 3-5 games with something "minor" ? Do you want to risk the entire season of a team that looks incredibly talented on both sides of the ball over one roster spot ?

Is keeping e.g. Meyers or Izzo or Rivers and the handful snaps any of them might get really that important relative to an experienced backup QB that can keep the ship afloat ?

Greg Harding


Did I win?

luuked said:

I don't see how Stidham would grow much faster as QB2 than as QB3. In fact you can make the argument that at this stage not having to worry too much about the week to week gameplan but continuing to work on his fundamentals would be more beneficial to him.

It is not like Hoyer is getting a sizable amount of practice reps anyway that Stidham could take over.

I really don't want to argue because I think we both agree that Stidham has shown enough intriguing stuff so far. For me it is just a matter of risk/reward. What happens if Brady misses 3-5 games with something "minor" ? Do you want to risk the entire season of a team that looks incredibly talented on both sides of the ball over one roster spot ?

Is keeping e.g. Meyers and the handful snaps he might get really that important relative to an experienced backup QB that can keep the ship afloat ?

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It's not just a personnel issue...its also personal. Tom and Brian are close...they have a lot of years being on the same team. They are the cool kids with Stidham looking in from the outside. Removing Hoyer from the equation also ensures Stidham as QB2 and WILL work closer with Tom which in turn provides possibly greater growth quickly instead if he was QB3. I DO think their would be a big difference in knowledge and support if Stidham is QB2 and not 3....for that reason as well.

Zuma said:

I agree but my thing is ...would Stidham grow more quickly if he was QB2 this seaason...working more closely with Tom and the weekly game plan instead of QB3 where he may not. Hoyer is incredibly valuable with the scout team and has an immense understand of the playbook which helps WR's that don't get many reps with Tom.

Their are valid points to both sides of the coin. As always...whatever Bill decides...it's the right decision.

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The DB's were interviewed recently where they talked about Hoyer's value in the DB meetings each week. That's the kind of contribution that's hard to cut.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Can someone trace the insanity trail leading up to: Duron Harmon won’t make this team. Where the F did that come from and how did it get an actual buzz? Was it Lazar’s report? One of the stranger takes I’ve seen from a beat writer and some forum members.

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Offseason without enough real material to work with, combined with a brief period of time that the cap was squeezed, combined with unrealistic hopes for a couple of young, unproven safeties in camp. Bingo.

But I'm liking your rants today. Keep it up.

RelocatedPatFan said:

Greg Harding


Did I win?

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Yes, you won the Double-Your-Money prize...because there's no way that either Greg Hardy or Warren G Harding makes this team.

betterthanthealternative said:

The DB's were interviewed recently where they talked about Hoyer's value in the DB meetings each week. That's the kind of contribution that's hard to cut.

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I think the real question is can we afford to keep 3 QBs or not.

QB is the most valuable position in sports, and if you think you have one that can make it, you hold on to him.

Then if you can only keep two, as backup do you keep a middle of the pack vet or a rookie with potential?

Given that TB12 is now "year to year like other players" yada yada, I vote for keeping the rookie with potential.

We did go with TB12 + rookie JG in 2014 so there's that for a precedent.

Julian Edelman, apparently

mikey m said:

Just returning punts and kicks from what I've seen. Maybe someone with more ST knowledge will chime in but at his size I would think the option would be gunner on punts which I'm not sure he has the speed for.

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Is he big enough to tackle guys? When I see him, he doesn't look big enough to be a football player, looks like some normal skinny kid wearing pads.

There is no way Berrios makes the team. I think the odds are better of Hoyer not making the team then making it, but I would certainly not say there is no way he makes it.

Bill Lee said:

I think the real question is can we afford to keep 3 QBs or not.

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What 53rd player on this roster would be more valuable than an experienced and competent backup QB ? In other words how do YOU determine the value ?