Edelman & D. Thomas back at practice; Gordon in warmups

AndyJohnson said:

Edelman, Gordon, Thomas.

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Lol Thomas.

Deus Irae said:

Anyone with a brain.



Dorsett's numbers are better than Patten's to this point in their respective careers, and noting that is not cherry picking, but common sense, so you're talking out of your ass on this. Patten played 12 NFL seasons. During those 12 seasons, he topped 30 receptions only 5 times (38, 51, 61, 44, 54). Dorsett's already done it twice, at age 25.

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Still don't care if to this point in Dorsetts career he's been better than Patten was in the same span because my original statement is true he still wishes he can become as good as Patten was.

Is Dorsett better than Troy or Jules too because he did more before 25? Or does he maybe wish he can be as good as them too?

AndyJohnson said:

Edelman, Gordon, Thomas.

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This is the fun part. Edelman at #1 is presumably inarguable. Gordon at #2 is what already happened last year. But after that we have three guys who have never played a game for the Patriots, so the guesswork is all a matter of what you want to project out from.

Thomas is the projection based on career production and veteran savvy, even though he's coming back from a serious injury and has only just started practicing with the Patriots.

Harry is the projection based on being the highest drafted WR of the Belichick era, with traits that should project well to the NFL and some highlight reel catches in practice and preseason.

Meyers is the projection based on being the most productive and impressive WR in camp, getting 1st team reps ahead of Harry, and being healthy for every practice.

And for completeness:

Dorsett is the projection based on knowing the offense better than any receiver other than Edelman, and offering breakaway speed none of the others can match.

203Pat said:

If this is about overall career then one would assume Patten wins as he played longer and has more stats.

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Why would one make such a ridiculous assumption, given that Dorsett's career is still active?

203Pat said:

If this is about who is a better receiver I would say it’s Patten has he performed much better playing with Brady in a much more running game dominated era.

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And I would respond by noting that Patten was playing when the Patriots were running a 3 WR set as a standard, while Dorsetts' been playing while the team has been running a 2 WR as standard. I would also respond by noting that, during Patten's time, the behind the line screen pass was used as a frequent substitute for a handoff, at what is (at least apparently) a much higher rate than in the past 2 years. Also, I would respond by noting Dorsett's two seasons in New England were both a bit wonky, to the detriment of the receiver:

Year one, Dorsett gets no training camp with the team because of the late date of the trade
Year two, Dorsett goes from starting and producing to being all but benched, upon the arrival of Gordon. Numerically, Dorsett produced before Gordon's arrival and had a couple of productive games after Gordon's suspension, as well.

203Pat said:

I’m still not really sure how this is even a debate. Dorsett would be lucky to end up like David Patten at this point in Dorsett’s career.

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This isn't difficult stuff, though y'all seem to be ignoring the obvious for some bizarre reason(s):

At this point in his career, Dorsett is better than, or at least more productive than, Patten was at the same point in his career. So the notion that Dorsett would be lucky to improve to equal or exceed Patten's not particularly impressive best seasons is a bit of an absurdity. It's not something that's only in the realm of luck. It's something that's obviously well within the realm of reality. As, to be fair, is Dorsett completely washing out in the future.

signbabybrady said:

Still don't care if to this point in Dorsetts career he's been better than Patten was in the same span because my original statement is true he still wishes he can become as good as Patten was.

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As long as you realize that you're now talking gibberish, and that your original statement was useless, albeit intriguing, because of the lack of context, that's great. Have a nice day.

Is he likely to go on the regular season pup?

PATSYLICIOUS said:

Is he likely to go on the regular season pup?

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Not sure which guy you're talking about (maybe you're replying to a post by someone on my ignore list and I'm missing context), but neither Edelman nor Thomas (if the reports of him being off PUP are accurate) can go on regular season PUP/NFI anymore. Gordon is still eligible for NFI in the regular season.

Deus Irae said:

As long as you realize that you're now talking gibberish, and that your original statement was useless, albeit intriguing, because of the lack of context, that's great. Have a nice day.

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No gibberish at all I'll repeat Dorsett wishes he can be as good as Patten was.

What about that statement would make you think I was only referring to Patten 25 years old and younger is the gibberish.

Is it ever ok to raise the specter of 2007? I know that it's like comparing a defense to the '85 Bears, but in general style and composition, I think this roster resembles 2007 more than any Patriots offense since.

The total reworking of the WR corps, with a slew of new faces producing a talented and deep group with big names. At RB, a pair of lead runners, a top receiving back, and a strong veteran FB. A generally experienced and talented OL. A modest TE corps headlined by Ben Watson. OC Josh McDaniels, QB Tom Brady.

Obviously there are differences. Two rookies, a rehab patient and the Gordon enigma make the WRs wildly unpredictable. Watson and Brady are a dozen years older. NOBODY is Randy Moss. But what other Patriots offense would be a better comparison?

patchick said:

This is the fun part. Edelman at #1 is presumably inarguable. Gordon at #2 is what already happened last year. But after that we have three guys who have never played a game for the Patriots, so the guesswork is all a matter of what you want to project out from.

Thomas is the projection based on career production and veteran savvy, even though he's coming back from a serious injury and has only just started practicing with the Patriots.

Harry is the projection based on being the highest drafted WR of the Belichick era, with traits that should project well to the NFL and some highlight reel catches in practice and preseason.

Meyers is the projection based on being the most productive and impressive WR in camp, getting 1st team reps ahead of Harry, and being healthy for every practice.

And for completeness:

Dorsett is the projection based on knowing the offense better than any receiver other than Edelman, and offering breakaway speed none of the others can match.

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I think there is a great opportunity to use different packages for different schemes.
Think about 3 wide, using different combinations of those 5.
It’s going to be fun

signbabybrady said:

No gibberish at all I'll repeat Dorsett wishes he can be as good as Patten was.

What about that statement would make you think I was only referring to Patten 25 years old and younger is the gibberish.

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It's gibberish. let it die, as you should have after the first post. You're now making yourself look like an idiot.

203Pat said:

Lol Thomas.

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Activated today.

Mack Herron said:

Just need to activate Josh and find a TE.

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I guess we know why Inman asked for his release, he must've known DT was coming back this week and figured he was out.

Deus Irae said:

It's gibberish. let it die, as you should have after the first post. You're now making yourself look like an idiot.

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Oh no please continue to tell me how Dorsett is better than Patten.

Regardless of the Patten to Dorsett comparison, the WR group has exciting potential if they stay healthy and unsuspended. Edelman is always reliable and a 1000 yard per season WR; Gordon, when in shape and playing, is a legit #1 WR, and top 5-10 WR in the league (18 YPC last year); DT is a proven WR, and if he stays healthy Is extremely reliable and already accomplished; Dorsett has value, Myers and Harry are gems in the making.

Lots of ifs, and with bad luck could be a rough group, but the upside is absolutely massive.

Elijah said:

Not sure which guy you're talking about (maybe you're replying to a post by someone on my ignore list and I'm missing context), but neither Edelman nor Thomas (if the reports of him being off PUP are accurate) can go on regular season PUP/NFI anymore. Gordon is still eligible for NFI in the regular season.

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Thanks, was referring to Thomas.

signbabybrady said:

Oh no please continue to tell me how Dorsett is better than Patten.

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I’m skipping into this argument without much context but if we are saying “who is better?”, obviously Patten accomplished much more than Dorsett yet has in his career.

Dorsett is young and his best seasons may yet be ahead.

venecol said:

I guess we know why Inman asked for his release, he must've known DT was coming back this week and figured he was out.

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He needed Thomas to come back to figure that out?

AndyJohnson said:

Activated today.

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Did he play in a meaningful game and produce today? That 3rd spot is very much up in the air.

dreighver said:

Yes, zero impact. If Gordon is not suspended then he will play; when he plays, he's exceptional.

The topic of discussion isn't "team with the WR group most likely to make it through the entire season". The topic of discussion is, "which is the most talented/skilled WR group in the NFL?".

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Technically the dispute was simply, "best wr group in the league."

For me, dependability factors in. For example, I think very little of the raiders' wr situation as I would not be counting on Brown to make it through the season without a meltdown