Pats - Titans postgame thread

It was a mistake to not try to watch a Pats feed live and instead record the NFL Network replay. The replay was by Titans announcers and were HORRIBLE. Mis-identifying Pats players, not even commenting on a couple of instances where guys got hurt, no replays of any good Pats plays, lots of missed live action returning from breaks... AWFUL. I know the NE locals are no great shakes, but that was brutal.

patchick said:

Interesting, I see Cowart as very much a 3-4 DE. He's built more like Jarvis Green than Vince Wilfork, and those massive arms seem like great DE assets. If--and I don't necessarily buy this, but IF--they want to play more old-school 3-man fronts, I'd picture Guy/Cowart/Butler on the outside and Shelton/Pennel/Parry at NT.

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Ok.. I clearly mistook Cowart for someone else.. I thought Cowart was a NT for some reason. Not a JG clone, which he does seem to be based on re-reviewing his draft profile.. I stand corrected.

So Cowart would be more of an UT/DE in the same line as Butler..

DaBruinz said:

Fact is that Pennel is on a 1 year prove it deal and is a rather easy cut for the team if he doesn't make it.

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That's a good point, Pennel has pretty modest dead cap hits--much less than ST guys like Bolden, King and Brooks.

Barring a trade, I expect our LB's to be
Hightower, VanNoy, Collins, Bentley, Roberts and King (really a STer)
============
That leaves us with 8-9 DL
I think that we start with Bennett, Guy, Shelton, Simon and Winovich
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PICK 3-4 ADDITION FRONT 6 PLAYERS
(if you pick 3, we can carry an additional DB or Ster)

I think that we need a NT, a couple of EDGE players, a 34 DE, and a #3 NT. The last roster spot or two could be from any position.

Who do you have making the team?
Calhoun, Cowart, Pennel, Butler, Wise, Rivers, Parry, Sam, Kamalu

Who are our 3 biggies if Pennel is gone? Or do we give up on sets that feature 2-3 biggies?

patchick said:

That's a good point, Pennel has pretty modest dead cap hits--much less than ST guys like Bolden, King and Brooks.

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This is true.

However, I believe that all the Ster's you mentioned will make the team, and still have plenty of room for a 2nd and 3rd biggie on the squad.

patchick said:

That's a good point, Pennel has pretty modest dead cap hits--much less than ST guys like Bolden, King and Brooks.

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mgteich said:

Who are our 3 biggies if Pennel is gone? Or do we give up on sets that feature 2-3 biggies?

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Guy, Shelton, and Bennett.

JayNM said:

Calhoun and Brooks are in their 2nd (EDIT First) year with the team, so the potential comes from being coached by our staff, who are the likeliest guys to put players in optimal position to play. It has happened before and happens quite often here.

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I guess I just don’t understand then.
Are you now saying keep players who have no experience with us over players who do because being here makes them better players than they are?

Rivers is 25, 2 years out of an ACL. This is his make or break year for sure, but he's making the most out of it, it seems. Crossen still is young so i dont know if I agree with your take here.

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I’m saying if rivers doesn’t earn a role in his 3rd year I wouldn’t keep him around on the bench on potential that maybe by next year he might be ready. There comes a tipping point.
I’m saying Crossen is not an NFL quality corner beyond being a st player that is on the end of the cornerback bench.

All in all, Im saying that this year, maybe the guys we keep aren't up to the same level of Harmon and others, but next year (the year after) they could be on their level, while the incumbent players are most likely plateu'd or declining. I mean, even if only one of these develop into a better player than a current back-up, it would mean that his net return (Production on the field or Comp Pick) is greater than what Harmon (and others) would give, from here to the future.

Im not trying to change anyone's mind about this, btw. The subject of Greater Future Return vs Maximizing Short Term is absolutely personal and hypothetical.

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But it comes down to winning. There is no guarantee. The guy who isn’t as good as Harmon reduces your chance of winning and the chance of the other guy ending up better us a gamble.
Using brooks as an example. He had t been able to earn a job as a safety for 5 years. The chance he suddenly surpasses Harmon is slim.
I think you are also over exaggerating the miraculous improvement a player is supposed to have by coming here after failing elsewhere. They are what they are.

I think “developmental” spots are the end of the roster and not spots where you cut a guy with an important role and hope the lesser guy improves. I mean Harmon is basically a starter.

patchick said:

Understood, I'm not ready to toss Pennel to the curb. I'm just asking an honest question: this morning Andy has repeatedly, confidently declared Pennel a starter. Why?

I'm ready to be convinced! I'm not here for pissing matches, I actually like it when somebody changes my mind. But I do need evidence, not just declarations that "I'm right so we need not discuss this any longer."

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Did I say that?
I am basing it on the players ability, and career, and the insignificance I have seen in how bb uses players in the preseason.
I also have said I am not going to argue about it because it will be answered soon.
So I hope you aren’t referring to me with that post.

DaBruinz said:

Guy, Shelton, and Bennett.

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Bennet is a DE. 275 lbs. Not a big DT.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

It was a mistake to not try to watch a Pats feed live and instead record the NFL Network replay. The replay was by Titans announcers and were HORRIBLE. Mis-identifying Pats players, not even commenting on a couple of instances where guys got hurt, no replays of any good Pats plays, lots of missed live action returning from breaks... AWFUL. I know the NE locals are no great shakes, but that was brutal.

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I watched the same on NFL game pass....I now feel educated on just how good Mariota is....I had it all wrong

I guess that we have different definitions. I don't consider Bennett at 275 to be even close.

DaBruinz said:

Guy, Shelton, and Bennett.

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patfanken said:

The Pennell thing is really getting curious. He looked impactful during the TC sessions I went to this summer. Yet he's seemed to disappear in the 2 practice games. I didn't know that he even played last night.

Cowart has certainly flashed, but we all don't know whether he's been consistent in doing his job on the rest of the plays he's been in. You'd need an all 22 view to figure that one out. Same thing goes for Pennell and Shelton (and Parry and Thurman for that matter). By all reports Shelton is having a very good camp, but who knows. This will be one of the more interesting cut down days in a while.

BTW- IF BB were to cut some vet, it will usually happen before the 31st in order to allow that vet a better shot a being picked up by another team. That is a courtesy that Bill has often given vets who he respected.

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People keep saying Pennel didn’t look good.
What are you expecting from him?
He is a run stuffing NT/DT who will play inside on early downs.
If someone has evaluated film on his preseason games to judge his he is taking on double teams, holding his ground, fighting off blocks in close quarters, etc please chime in. But not noticing a DT in a preseason game doesn’t seem like a righteous indictment to me.

mgteich said:

Barring a trade, I expect our LB's to be
Hightower, VanNoy, Collins, Bentley, Roberts and King (really a STer)
============
That leaves us with 8-9 DL
I think that we start with Bennett, Guy, Shelton, Simon and Winovich
============
PICK 3-4 ADDITION FRONT 6 PLAYERS
(if you pick 3, we can carry an additional DB or Ster)

I think that we need a NT, a couple of EDGE players, a 34 DE, and a #3 NT. The last roster spot or two could be from any position.

Who do you have making the team?
Calhoun, Cowart, Pennel, Butler, Wise, Rivers, Parry, Sam, Kamalu

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I don’t see Simon as a lock at all. A favorite to make it but in a roster battle. But wise is a lock.


Bennett Wise Winovich Guy Pennel Shelton Cowart butler
And one of Simon, Rivers, Calhoun (possibly 2 of these with butler being cut )

mgteich said:

I guess that we have different definitions. I don't consider Bennett at 275 to be even close.

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Being a "big guy" isn't just about size. But strength as well. Bennett's one of the strongest guys in the game..

DaBruinz said:

Being a "big guy" isn't just about size. But strength as well. Bennett's one of the strongest guys in the game..

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That doesn’t mean he will be playing over a C or G on running downs.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

It was a mistake to not try to watch a Pats feed live and instead record the NFL Network replay. The replay was by Titans announcers and were HORRIBLE. Mis-identifying Pats players, not even commenting on a couple of instances where guys got hurt, no replays of any good Pats plays, lots of missed live action returning from breaks... AWFUL. I know the NE locals are no great shakes, but that was brutal.

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The Pats preseason broadcasts have gotten worlds better since they dumped Roche and Fauria and brought in the radio guys Socci and Zolak. Chatham and Nink have provided insight from the sidelines. Unfortunately Paul Perillo is still there so you can’t win them all.

fair enough

LOCKS FOR BOTH OF US: Bennett, Guy, Pennel, Winovich and Shelton

So we have Wise, Butler, Cowart, Simon, Rivers and Calhoun competing for 4 roster spots.

We need to cut TWO. Personally, I think that Rivers is a relatively easy cut. I don't know the last; so you're correct, the last cut could be Simon (or Butler or Wise or Calhoun).

AndyJohnson said:

I don’t see Simon as a lock at all. A favorite to make it but in a roster battle. But wise is a lock.


Bennett Wise Winovich Guy Pennel Shelton Cowart butler
And one of Simon, Rivers, Calhoun (possibly 2 of these with butler being cut )

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Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

It was a mistake to not try to watch a Pats feed live and instead record the NFL Network replay. The replay was by Titans announcers and were HORRIBLE. Mis-identifying Pats players, not even commenting on a couple of instances where guys got hurt, no replays of any good Pats plays, lots of missed live action returning from breaks... AWFUL. I know the NE locals are no great shakes, but that was brutal.

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I think we can all agree that having Dion Lewis add a lot of weight and secretly switch back to the Patriots was another genius Belichick move.

AndyJohnson said:

People keep saying Pennel didn’t look good.
What are you expecting from him?

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I don't entirely disagree with you, Andy, you made some good points. NT IS not usually a high profile position, because mostly it's all about doing the dirty work, soaking up blockers in order to make someone ELSE look good......

HOWEVER Pennell was our most high profile FA acquisition,(relatively speaking) who by all accounts (including my own) was wowing us for the first 2 weeks of TC. So, in a game where most of the defensive starters were watching on the sideline, Pennell wasn't even STARTING with the 2nd line players. He came in AFTER the first set of back ups went out.

And while a NT by definition isn't a visible position, shouldn't our designated starting NT be DOMINATING players who are unlikely to make their team's roster, and not "disappearing" against them

Given all that, we have a right to wonder WTF is going one here. Is he being punished for something? Or is he just not even the 2nd best option. OR is Bill just giving him some snaps in order to work on some new technique he's having trouble with? I don't know. but wondering about this situation IS legit.