8/15 - Thursday Pats/Titans Joint Session Thread

patfanken said:

I don't think he has the short area quickness to make people miss as a PR. Edelman makes at least one person miss on about 90% of his returns, even those he makes minimal yardage on. Dorset doesn't seem to have the ability to do that.

BTW- I see him as a lock for the final 53. (sorry PP2). I would agree that he's a limited receiver meaning he can't effectively run all routes. But his speed and hands alone make him a keeper. He can run effective 9 routes, comebacks, comeback and go, and crossers. The fact that he is "available" as well as his catch rate when targeted, only adds to his value

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Did you mean: sorry, but Dorsett is going to be a lock for the 53?

50-yard-line said:

If Thomas starts practicing and comes up to full speed, the WR position is sure to shed some talented players.

Edelman is a lock.
Harry is a lock (will he start on PUP, perhaps? Hamstring injuries can linger.)

After that, I've got (not in terms of "best" but as in who I expect nearest to locks.
3. Thomas - if the above is correct.

4. Dorsett

5. Meyers - I can't see them letting this kid walk, and I doubt they'd get him to his practice squad.

6/7/8. Harris (better get back on the field!), Inman, Berrios

If Gordon gets reinstated, and the rest are all healthy, the world goes crazy.

Edelman
Gordon
Thomas
Harry
Meyers
Dorsett might wind up out.

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I don’t think Harry will start on PUP. Given the injury, they’ll probably take it easy on him through the preseason but I would expect him to be there Week 1.

mgteich said:

OK, presuming that Gordon is still suspended, we will have to cut three out of
Harris, Meyers, Dorsett, Inman and Berrios.

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Is that really a given? With the presumed #1 TE off the 53 to start the season, keeping 6 WR and just 2 TE on the game 1 roster seems perfectly possible.

Personally, I would keep Harris and Dorsett. However, I could see Belichick using the 5th WR spot for Myers, who he would hope to develop over the course of the next year, likely without being active.

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Imagine for a moment that Meyers was a mid-round pick (as he was projected to be pre-draft). Given what he's shown so far, would he be off anybody's projected 53?

50-yard-line said:

Harry is a lock (will he start on PUP, perhaps? Hamstring injuries can linger.)

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I'm going to bet that the answer to your question is "no".

("A player who, as a result of football-related injuries, is unable to take part in training camp practices may be assigned to the preseason PUP list. Players can be moved off the PUP list to the active roster at any time, even after one practice. A player cannot be placed on the PUP list, however, once he has taken the field for a practice, even if only for a few minutes. A player who finishes the preseason still on the PUP list can then be placed on the regular-season PUP list. Such players must sit out the first six weeks of the regular season." )

Mike the Brit said:

I'm going to bet that the answer to your question is "no".

("A player who, as a result of football-related injuries, is unable to take part in training camp practices may be assigned to the preseason PUP list. Players can be moved off the PUP list to the active roster at any time, even after one practice. A player cannot be placed on the PUP list, however, once he has taken the field for a practice, even if only for a few minutes. A player who finishes the preseason still on the PUP list can then be placed on the regular-season PUP list. Such players must sit out the first six weeks of the regular season." )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physically_unable_to_perform​

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So, then:

Edelman
Thomas (I think he'll get off PUP soon)
Harry
Dorsett
Meyers

With Harris/Inman/Berrios fighting for a spot if they decide to keep 6.

KontradictioN said:

I don’t think Harry will start on PUP. Given the injury, they’ll probably take it easy on him through the preseason but I would expect him to be there Week 1.

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@Keyser Söze... problem?

mgteich said:

OK, presuming that Gordon is still suspended, we will have to cut three out of
Harris, Meyers, Dorsett, Inman and Berrios.

First, the top 3 WR's get over 90% of the reps. The #4 and #5 WR's get almost no reps over the course of the season. Barring injuries, I would expect the same with Edelman, Thomas and Harry.

So, yes. Most here will likely see one of their favs cut. Some of us will guess which TWO to save, be the backup in case of injury, and perhaps have a serious role in a game or two depending on matchups.

Personally, I would keep Harris and Dorsett. However, I could see Belichick using the 5th WR spot for Myers, who he would hope to develop over the course of the next year, likely without being active.

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@mgteich normally I find your analysis to be very rational and grounded but I don't get the assumption that Thomas will leap out of injury status and outperform all of Harris, Meyers, Dorsett, Inman, and Berrios. He was good, but nowhere near great, when he was healthy years ago. And while he's been working hard in camp lately, it still looks like straight-ahead work and he seems a long way from truly testing that tendon. I think he's got a long way to go to supplant the five guys on the list above.

Inman seems better positioned to make a move in the next two weeks, IMHO.

SHOUT all you want

I would strongly prefer to have a healthy Thomas on the roster over a healthy Gordon 10 out of ten times. Why, because Gordon could be suspended again anytime.

However, that is never the choice. If Gordon is available, I would choose to him on the roster instead of the #5 WR.

203Pat said:

YES I THINK THE WHOLE WORLD UNDERSTANDS THAT. What he said was "when healthy DT is a better option than Gordon. It is reasonable to assume that he meant if they were both on the active roster. If there is one roster spot and both players were available I would take Gordon 10 times out of 10. I don't know why we would be debating this if the statement was "who is more valuable to the team right this moment?" because neither of them are. One may not play this year due to suspension and the other cant play right now because he is injured.

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betterthanthealternative said:

@mgteich normally I find your analysis to be very rational and grounded but I don't get the assumption that Thomas will leap out of injury status and outperform all of Harris, Meyers, Dorsett, Inman, and Berrios. He was good, but nowhere near great, when he was healthy years ago. And while he's been working hard in camp lately, it still looks like straight-ahead work and he seems a long way from truly testing that tendon. I think he's got a long way to go to supplant the five guys on the list above.

Inman seems better positioned to make a move in the next two weeks, IMHO.

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Forget Thomas at his best. Even last year which was his least productive season since he developed is more than I expect out of anyone on your list this year. Obviously the achilles is a big question but I think it's fairly rational to slot him in as #2 when he returns. Which hopefully is sooner than later.

* Not counting Gordon.

Speaking of Thomas if healthy he is still one of the best route runners in the entire league. Like it was said he had played with garbage QBs and despite that fact he had 400 yards just in 8 games in last season. Sounds very good to me. Imagine him playing 16 games with the goat.Assuming creating separation by our WRs was our issue Thomas would be a solution. I hope he will stay healthy.

fair enough

I don't think that Thomas is even in the same category as the players you name. There are Edelman, Thomas and Gordon. When available, the rest are far behind in any depth chart (by the way, I would include Harry).

Are you really saying that you would cut Thomas to keep any of the players below?

I suppose if we were betting the field (the players you name) vs Thomas with regard to season long production, it could be close, but only because of the possibility that Thomas weren't healthy.

betterthanthealternative said:

@mgteich normally I find your analysis to be very rational and grounded but I don't get the assumption that Thomas will leap out of injury status and outperform all of Harris, Meyers, Dorsett, Inman, and Berrios. He was good, but nowhere near great, when he was healthy years ago. And while he's been working hard in camp lately, it still looks like straight-ahead work and he seems a long way from truly testing that tendon. I think he's got a long way to go to supplant the five guys on the list above.

Inman seems better positioned to make a move in the next two weeks, IMHO.

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signbabybrady said:

Forget Thomas at his best. Even last year which was his least productive season since he developed is more than I expect out of anyone on your list this year. Obviously the achilles is a big question but I think it's fairly rational to slot him in as #2 when he returns. Which hopefully is sooner than later.

* Not counting Gordon.

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I'd give Harris the same "performance discount" that you give Thomas. He played in Washington. That's like playing for the Jets. He hasn't had a chance in the League like what Brady and Josh can offer him. TBD.

Froob said:

How's Bailey vs Allen looking? I just read that Bailey does kickoffs as well, news to me. Wonder if we'd want him to kickoff instead of Gost.

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Bailey did some kick-offs for the 1st pre-season game.

Reminder - you cant PUP someone once they have taken part in any type of camp. They would have to be on active PUP like Thomas to be able to be reserved PUP for the season

Also, there is no designation for IR anymore. Any 2 players can return after week 8. However, to be able to return, the player has to be on the 53 at the start of the season.

Also, the Garropolites were wrong.

And Patsfan2 is an idiot.

Put Sony at TE!

KontradictioN said:

I don’t think Harry will start on PUP. Given the injury, they’ll probably take it easy on him through the preseason but I would expect him to be there Week 1.

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Harry can't start on the PUP because he's already practiced. He can only start on the IR.. And that would be a bad thing..

Yes. I expect him to be there week 1 unless his hamstring has completely torn from his femur..

1) Yes, we could keep 6 position WR's on the 53. I think that approach is irrational. We need 4 WR's on a team. The 5th has almost zero receptions over the course of the year. For me, the sixth is simply a waste. I suppose if we viewed Myers as a developmental WR and not likely to contribute this year, we might keep him as a developmental player.

2) what he shown so far? I don't know. Unless someone has been at all the practices and knows the assignments, we don't really know whether Myers is better than Dorsett and Harris. Belichick didn't rate Myers a mid-round pick or he would have drafted. Perhaps, he has changed his mind enough to believe that Myers is better than both Dorsett and Harris, perhaps not.

But yes, if Myers were a 5th or 6th round draft pick, I still wouldn't consider him a lock.
However, he wasn't. Myers was an UDFA. Personally, I have a very dim view of UDFA's if there are qualified veteran alternatives. I consider it a long reach to prefer Myers to Dorsett. And getting 3 more TD's won't make any difference. He is one of a long, long list of UDFA WR's that flash in the preseason. Perhaps, he is a Thompkins, perhaps not. The Harris injury could make the difference for Myers.

patchick said:

Is that really a given? With the presumed #1 WR off the 53 to start the season, keeping 6 WR and just 2 TE on the game 1 roster seems perfectly possible.



Imagine for a moment that Meyers was a mid-round pick (as he was projected to be pre-draft). Given what he's shown so far, would he be off anybody's projected 53?

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The grass is always greener on our side I guess, concerning D. Thomas. The knock on him here has always been he was soft, weak against man, questionable hands but as soon as he’s on our team he is a lock, even after a major injury. I like our two rookies, Edelman, if Gordon makes a return it’ll be a great mix of youth and experience. Last one or two we spots will be fun to watch.