Joe Thuney

Shaq Mason signed his extension on August 27th last year.

Family said:

If you need to go back to 02-03, times were different, and that's kind of making my point anyway, which is there haven't been many.

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I went back to 02 & 03 to show it's gone on almost from the beginning of the Belichick era. If you want more recent (as well as being on the O-line) there's Shaq Mason and David Andrews. Not that anyone in this conversation is saying it but I get sick of hearing how New England doesn't draft well. They just draft some areas better than others. The Pats draft O-lineman the way Pitt drafts receivers. In no way does that diminish Thuney, he plays at/near an All Pro level and I want him here.

Family said:

Yes there have been impactful 1st year players under BB, but not many I can recall that were inserted with the starters from the first day of camp and never left.

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Could that be because BB & co. don't want to insert a rookie in the starting lineup on the first day of camp, and would only do so if there's a gaping hole in the lineup and no alternative? And they take pains to avoid being in that situation?

If the Pats get creative they can keep him, about $53 million in cap room next year and a lot more in 2021...

Hanging on to a great O line imo is worth it.. the longer they play together they will only get better.

maust1013 said:

I went back to 02 & 03 to show it's gone on almost from the beginning of the Belichick era. If you want more recent (as well as being on the O-line) there's Shaq Mason and David Andrews. Not that anyone in this conversation is saying it but I get sick of hearing how New England doesn't draft well. They just draft some areas better than others. The Pats draft O-lineman the way Pitt drafts receivers. In no way does that diminish Thuney, he plays at/near an All Pro level and I want him here.

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There was a post here not too long ago that showed that the "Pittsburgh drafts WR exceptionally well" is a fallacy. Their hit rate is very slightly above the League average. I can't recall who posted it, but it should be a sticky.

Thuney has been awesome. Trent Brown played lt as good as it gets last year and if Thuney can give us 85% of that he is a goner.

maust1013 said:

I went back to 02 & 03 to show it's gone on almost from the beginning of the Belichick era. If you want more recent (as well as being on the O-line) there's Shaq Mason and David Andrews. Not that anyone in this conversation is saying it but I get sick of hearing how New England doesn't draft well. They just draft some areas better than others. The Pats draft O-lineman the way Pitt drafts receivers. In no way does that diminish Thuney, he plays at/near an All Pro level and I want him here.

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Neither Mason or Andrews were lock starters during their rookie seasons, let alone starters during all of training camp.

Shaq Mason did not even start in the first game of the season and rotated for a portion of the season.
Shaq Mason

Bryan Stork was the starter going into camp, and Andrews split first team reps with him when Stork was healthy. Andrews did start the first 10 games, but as Stork's replacement. Once Stork came back, he started a bunch of games over Andrews.

This is not a commentary on Patriots drafting, but an observation on the rarity of Thuney's accomplishments. Thuney has been on the field for 100%, 99.56%, and 99.69% of offensive snaps during his career on top of never missing a moment with the starters from the first snap of rookie camp.

Maybe there's someone, but I can't think of another player since Chandler Jones you can say that about. It's pretty rare.

patchick said:

Could that be because BB & co. don't want to insert a rookie in the starting lineup on the first day of camp, and would only do so if there's a gaping hole in the lineup and no alternative? And they take pains to avoid being in that situation?

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This is what makes Thuney's accomplishment even more impressive.

Is there a gaping hole at WR currently? Yes it's hard for a rookie to run with the first team and never look back in any situation.

We take what Thuney's done for granted, when it was a rare event.

Family said:

Thuney probably won't demand top free agents dollars.

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What makes you think that ? If he hits FA he can easily get a 10M APY contract. Hell Zack Martin and Andrew Norwell are making 14M and 13.3M, respectively.

luuked said:

What makes you think that ? If he hits FA he can easily get a 10M APY contract. Hell Zack Martin and Andrew Norwell are making 14M and 13.3M, respectively.

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Martin and Norwell are All-Pros.

I was thinking if the Pats locked him up now. But yes Thuney will demand money, just IMO not first tier.

betterthanthealternative said:

There was a post here not too long ago that showed that the "Pittsburgh drafts WR exceptionally well" is a fallacy. Their hit rate is very slightly above the League average. I can't recall who posted it, but it should be a sticky.

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Their batting average may be pedestrian, but they're "hits" are bases loaded homers compared to our 2 out bases clear bloop singles.

It's hard to look at our wr history and not start looking across the league wondering if its normal.

Family said:

Martin and Norwell are All-Pros.

I was thinking if the Pats locked him up now. But yes Thuney will demand money, just IMO not first tier.

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That's why I said 10M APY and just pointed out where the top of the market was until next year.

Unless they trade Mason I am not sure there will be space to pay two guards.

The team is already paying Shaq Mason and Marcus Cannon a lot of money. IOL is one of the easier positions to replace and it is not good money management to give two guards sizeable contracts. Unless Thuney takes a significant pay cut to stay in Massachusetts (he won't), he's gone. Hjalte Froholdt will be the starting LG after the end of this season.

luuked said:

Unless they trade Mason I am not sure there will be space to pay two guards.

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That's the best argument against.

Maybe they can get Cannon to a 4 million cap next season and have the tackle position at a combined 7 million. Or they trade Mason. Or cut Cannon and draft another tackle.

One other point. Maybe it's all Dante and the Pats system, but every tackle who plays beside him has their best years. Does Thuney have something to do with this?

IMO they will make this happen

Flash said:

The team is already paying Shaq Mason and Marcus Cannon a lot of money. IOL is one of the easier positions to replace and it is not good money management to give two guards sizeable contracts. Unless Thuney takes a significant pay cut to stay in Massachusetts (he won't), he's gone. Hjalte Froholdt will be the starting LG after the end of this season.

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Cannon can be cut next year and the Pats would save $5m on the cap. Mason's cap hit over the next 4 years will never hit $10m. Pats have cap space and the salary cap keeps going up

So nah i'd disagree especially when you factor in that the Brady says he still wants to play more. Pats will make it a priority to keep that IOL in tact for the next few years.

Odds would probably be better that Yodny Cajuste is the RT than Hjalte Froholdt being the LG in 2020.

2020

Wynn- rookie deal
Thuney
Andrews
Mason
Cajuste- rookie deal

When Brady and the run game have had problems it's been when the IOL protection and run blocking has been subpar.

43 year old Brady QBing the team you are probably gonna wanna keep the ironman borderline all-pro LG, instead of the aging, injury prone RT.

maust1013 said:

Out of Devin Lucien, Malcolm Mitchell, Jeremy Gallon, Aaron Dobson, Josh Boyce, Jeremy Ebert and Taylor Price only Dobson had so much as a 500 yd season.

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I need to say a quick word on behalf of my man Joyce Boyce, who never gets any love on this board (sorry for the brief hijack OP; Thuney is awesome). It's true that his rookie year mostly sucked and his career wasn't much better. But come on, Boyce's touchdown reception from Jimmy Garoppolo was one of the most iconic plays in Patriot's history and no one ever mentions it.

Don't believe me? Watch the video below. NFL films shows his touchdown catch 6 times!!! (Boyce is wearing Doug Baldwin's 89 jersey.)

There are a lot of hard miles on Thuney these past three years.

Seems to me that New England drafts offensive guards with a certain skill set, heart and desire.

From there they rely on Dante to pull every last once of potential from them.

And while Thuney has exceeded all expectations, bb has set a price and if Thuney tries to exceed it, bb will let him walk.

We're fooling ourselves about the free agency market. If a top shelf player hits the open market, he will match or surpass any previous deals signed at the position, regardless of whether he is better, equal or worse.

Trent Brown was worth $17 million to the Raiders as a RT, and Thuney is a better player.

We need to lock him up before 2019 begins, and I believe that it is the teams goal to do so. Prior to last year, I was convinced that Shaq Mason was good as gone and that the money would be devoted to Trey Flowers, now Mason is a top 5 guard and a steal at his salary. If we can lock up Thuney at Mason money, it would be epic.