Day 3 Training Camp (Real practice begins)

fnordcircle said:

I want you to be right but this seems like you're significantly underestimating the void left by Flowers.

Also I'm gonna be pissed if Rivers finally comes into his own in what I'm guessing is a contract year. I mean it's better than him becoming nothing but if he lodges a bunch of sacks and then gets a good contract from a rival that will kind of annoy me.

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Rivers is signed through 2020.

TommyBrady12 said:

Edelman has an injury history, though. Even if he isn't placed on PUP and starts the season, it's good to have another veteran who knows the playbook and has played with Brady before. Say there is an injury to Edelman in the middle of the season - you then have at best a WR corps of Harry, Dorsett, Gordon, Berrios, and Thomas. That can win us some games, even without Gronk.

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Andy seems anxious about the thumb. I don't know why.

Crazy Patriot Guy said:

Rivers is signed through 2020.

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yeah but if Rivers comes out of nowhere and has 12 sacks he could be in a contract year and get a new contract

fnordcircle said:

Dorsett came through for us a few times and I'm overall a fan, but this is typical specious reasoning from you.

Trent Dilfer was QB1 on a SB champ so let's throttle back on being on a roster as being a checkmate on someone's abilities.

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Dishonest fjord.
Take words out of context and pretend they mean something they don’t. Shame.

The comment was “dorsett is only a wr4” and I said he was often a wr2 or wr3, on a Sb champ, so that’s wrong.

robertweathers said:

Andy seems anxious about the thumb. I don't know why.

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Hmm WR with a broken thumb, why would that worry anyone?

But I’m assuming he will be fine. If you cut dorsett that makes Edelman the only WR or TE on the roster who e we played a snap with Brady.
If Edelman isn’t ok it’s even worse.

robertweathers said:

That was last year, Andy.

Is Edelman going on PUP?

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I don’t know. He could.

We have less at the position this year than we did last year.

TommyBrady12 said:

Edelman has an injury history, though. Even if he isn't placed on PUP and starts the season, it's good to have another veteran who knows the playbook and has played with Brady before. Say there is an injury to Edelman in the middle of the season - you then have at best a WR corps of Harry, Dorsett, Gordon, Berrios, and Thomas. That can win us some games, even without Gronk.

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That’s at best. At worst Gordon is suspended and Thomas isn’t healthy enough to play and you have
A rookie, a second year guy who we cut last year and other flotsam and jetsam.

AndyJohnson said:

Dishonest fjord.
Take words out of context and pretend they mean something they don’t. Shame.

The comment was “dorsett is only a wr4” and I said he was often a wr2 or wr3, on a Sb champ, so that’s wrong.

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Nah, it's not dishonest because you clearly included the fact he was on a SB roster on purpose as if that mere fact was testimony to how good he is.

I like Dorsett and think he's a lot better than people are saying but argue in good faith for once in your life.

PS - I'm super enraged by calling me Fjord, very Presidential of you to try childish insults mang.

MrBigglesWorth said:

Think so? I think pennel is a big upgrade and Collins too. If rivers could give you 3-4 sacks and multiple pressures being part of a rotation that would be a positive step. How many game was he not active last season?

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I may not have been clear. I’m saying given what you can expect from the defense adding a player to it that can do what the highest expectations of rivers are who elevate it a ton.

fnordcircle said:

Nah, it's not dishonest because you clearly included the fact he was on a SB roster on purpose as if that mere fact was testimony to how good he is.

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I included it to say that he was wr2/wr3 for a good part of the year on a team that was winning.
Cutting part of my comment to change its meaning is ridiculously dishonest.

I like Dorsett and think he's a lot better than people are saying but argue in good faith for once in your life.

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I argue in good faith in every discussion o ever have.
You are the one who half quoted me. The patriots did in fact win the Sb. I’m sorry if you think it’s unfair to say that.

PS - I'm super enraged by calling me Fjord, very Presidential of you to try childish insults mang.

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Autocorrect. Not intentional. I wouldn’t even understand why fjord would be an insult.

AndyJohnson said:

Hmm we with a broken thumb, why would that worry anyone?

But I’m assuming he will be fine. If you cut dorsett that makes Edelman the only WR or TE on the roster who e we played a snap with Brady.
If Edelman isn’t ok it’s even worse.

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He'll be fine. Hes back in a couple of weeks and Week 1 is 6 weeks away.

SBLIII said:

How am I underestimating it?

Flowers is gone but we got Winovich, Pennel and Bennett. It's a wash for me worst case.

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Agreed. And you have to believe that Wise is improved, and Shelton understands how to plug the hole after ups and downs last year. Lots of guys take 2 years to fully recover from an ACL tear - Rivers emergence would be great.

Having said that, lots of guys never fully recover from an Achilles tear. Since we didn't make a move to bring in a replacement for Trent Brown, I take that as a positive sign that Wynn is OK. Fingers crossed. The OL is a bigger question than the DL for me.

AndyJohnson said:

I don’t know. He could.

We have less at the position this year than we did last year.

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We have no idea if 2019 is less than 2018. Way too early.

robertweathers said:

He'll be fine. Hes back in a couple of weeks and Week 1 is 6 weeks away.

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I broke my thumb in high school. I missed the last 5 games of my high school career. I tried to hide it so I could play. Made it about 5 days before I got caught. Doctor literally said if it healed wrong I could lose the use of the thumb for life. I could write for 2 months much less catch passes in the nfl.

I mean we are talking about the hands of the top wr on the team in the context of you saying they should cut the only other guy at either the wr or te position who has played a snap with Brady.

When you only have 2 and 1 has an injury that could have a huge impact on his ability to do his job, the other one is pretty important.

robertweathers said:

Andy seems anxious about the thumb. I don't know why.

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I only worry about it hurting his ability to get some preseason reps with Brady. If he doesn't play a single preseason game, I would imagine it'll take a couple of weeks in the regular season for Edelman to be Edelman. But Edelman has torn his ACL during the preseason before, which IMO wrecked our 2017 season, so this may be a blessing to have him sit.

SBLIII said:

How am I underestimating it?

Flowers is gone but we got Winovich, Pennel and Bennett. It's a wash for me worst case.

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You're underestimating because I think he was a top 5 all time DL for the Patriots.

Winovich is an unknown - I am super excited about him and think he'll be like a Bruschi-esque fan favorite.

Pennel will probably do well for us - I'm thinking his ceiling is Branch on a good day.

Bennett is old let's hope he's able to perform up to snuff.

Flowers was as good of a DL as we could hope for, there's a lot of question marks in the list above. Don't get me wrong - I want you to be right and will be rooting for it. I'm not rooting against these guys but Flowers was amazing let's not understate that.

How many times have we lost an all pro and then hoped that guys like Dobson and Thompkins would replace the productivity and been let down?

robertweathers said:

We have no idea if 2019 is less than 2018. Way too early.

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If Gordon is suspended and Thomas can’t play then you cut dorsett you have a rookie and a bunch of scrubs.
I’m shocked you feel like depth and quality at we and te isn’t a tremendous issue.

One-If-By-Sea said:

Having said that, lots of guys never fully recover from an Achilles tear.

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It's not the achilles that concerns me it's that a lot of players who get injured in their rookie year seem to never fulfill their full potential. It's either that they missed out on some very important fundamentals or that they started trying too hard to make up for lost time and start freelancing or get injured.

Same fears I have about Wynn, but I'd love him to surpass my low expectations.

AndyJohnson said:

I broke my thumb in high school. I missed the last 5 games of my high school career. I tried to hide it so I could play. Made it about 5 days before I got caught. Doctor literally said if it healed wrong I could lose the use of the thumb for life. I could write for 2 months much less catch passes in the nfl.

I mean we are talking about the hands of the top wr on the team in the context of you saying they should cut the only other guy at either the wr or te position who has played a snap with Brady.

When you only have 2 and 1 has an injury that could have a huge impact on his ability to do his job, the other one is pretty important.

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They said he's only gonna miss a couple of weeks, Andy.

Family said:

But it's fair for some posters to believe there is more upside to Harris, and thus an edge.

Doesn't matter. It's a wide open competition and everything is opinion.

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Harris is older than Dorsett, and Dorsett has been the better player to this point in their respective careers. So, I'm not sure how we're defining "fair", here, and I'm not saying that there's no way that Harris can ever possibly be better than Dorsett but, so far, there is nothing that would indicate that Harris has a higher upside than Dorsett.