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Warriors looked cooked.
 
This is why i argued that the Warriors are nothing like the Patriots before the finals started. If Kerr and Curry are the equivalent of TB&BB, they are 1-6 in their last 7 Finals games without Durant. 8-1 with him. Without Durant taking the shortcut to titles, this is never a dynasty.

The Raptors are a lot better team than the Warriors minus Durant.
 
This is why i argued that the Warriors are nothing like the Patriots before the finals started. If Kerr and Curry are the equivalent of TB&BB, they are 1-6 in their last 7 Finals games without Durant. 8-1 with him. Without Durant taking the shortcut to titles, this is never a dynasty.

The Raptors are a lot better team than the Warriors minus Durant.
The Warriors didn't even need Durant to beat the last 2 Cavs teams.

They probably need him to beat the Raptors, but without him they're still on par. They're just playing like sh*t.
 
Warriors aren’t done yet...but it’s not looking good. Once again goes to show how virtually impossible modern sports dynasties are to maintain. This is year 5 for them. KD injury (and health problems in general) obviously huge, but I think a very big problem are that guys like Livingston, Iguodala, Bogut, and the role players have crept up in age and aren’t very effective anymore. The team seriously lacks depth beyond their four stars, and Toronto is eating them alive for it.

NFL and NBA are so different in team building, but this would still qualify for Belichick’s philosophy on “year too early rather than year too late” when it comes to aging veterans and being okay with cutting fan favorites and guys that fans think are “owed” a spot on the team from last heroics.
 
This is an extremely beat up shell of the warriors squad the last 5 years.
 
The Warriors didn't even need Durant to beat the last 2 Cavs teams.

They probably need him to beat the Raptors, but without him they're still on par. They're just playing like sh*t.

Considering how good Durant was against the Cavs in both finals, i'm going to completely disagree. This is Curry's fifth final and he's never been the best player in a single one. The team with the best player in the finals usually wins. Durant was the best player in both 2017 and 2018 finals, Lebron was the best in 2016, Kawhi in 2014, Lebron in 2012 and 2013, Dirk in 2011, etc...the only exception was 2015 when the Cavs won 2 games despite being down Kyrie and Love. The Warriors barely beat a Cavs team that had a starting five of Dellavedova, Mozgov, Tristan and Shumpert. This year Kawhi is once again the best player, and the Raptors are a win away from the title.

The Durant-less Warriors are one of the most overrated teams ever, made to be an unbeatable behemoth so that Lebron's title in 2016 can reach mythical proportions. The 2016 OKC were absolutely outplaying them, led 3-1, they completely dominated them through 6 games and were cruising in Game 6 before Klay hit 7-8 ridiculous threes against the run of play, and both Durant and Westbrook froze.

People love to mention the Draymond suspension as a reason why they didn't win two titles but conveniently forget that he actually should have been suspended against OKC and they would have lost that series 4:1. They never should have made the finals in the first place.

A really good team but one that has been unbelievably fortunate until this year. If Kyrie and Love don't get injured in 2015, if OKC doesn't bottle it , if Kawhi doesn't get injured by Zaza, if Paul doesn't get injured last year while trailing 3:2...and obviously if Durant had an ounce of integrity, history could and most likely would be different.
 
KD needs to take of his sandals, lace up some shoes and get his *** out there for game 5.

If GS doesn’t pull a miracle, this could be the last time we see KD and Klay Thompson on that team. I hope they both leave to balance out the West.
 
This is why i argued that the Warriors are nothing like the Patriots before the finals started. If Kerr and Curry are the equivalent of TB&BB, they are 1-6 in their last 7 Finals games without Durant. 8-1 with him. Without Durant taking the shortcut to titles, this is never a dynasty.

The Raptors are a lot better team than the Warriors minus Durant.

In one sense you are absolutely correct that they are nowhere near the Patriots dynastic level. But I root for them because what they've done in basketball is also incredibly hard to do, even if it hasn't been close to as long as the Patriots. They have a lot of players who could have much bigger roles on other teams (or at least, a lot of these guys could prior to recently when they've started to decline) but have bought into the collective good concept, which is hard to find in the diva NBA. People crap on them all the time, but I think what they've done is astonishing, to play as a team, without egos, when most NBA superstars are the most jealous, me-first, prima donas you'll find.

They've also revolutionized the way the game is played in many ways with their three-point loving, small ball emphasis (and Draymond Green's very unique role), which has been copied by so many teams now.

While your stat is true about their Finals record splits, you also skipped over that they won the 2014-15 championship without Durant and followed up with a 73-9 record and a game away from cementing the greatest team in the expansion era by resume. Curry played on a bum ankle throughout the playoffs; not trying to "make excuses," but this team was historically great even without him. This year's playoffs, they just swept the WCF without him as well.

I don't think it's fair to say they took a "shortcut" to titles because they signed KD. Durant joined the team and they had the cap space to sign him. Like the Patriots, they've played within the same salary cap as every other team. I don't know if they would have won the last two championships without Durant, but it's certainly not out of the question. They went 12-1 in the playoffs two years ago and then last year wiped the floor with the Cavs. With Durant, they are a super duper team; without Durant they are a super team. They clearly are not - at this moment - playing at their peak for multiple reasons. It's not realistic to expect any professional sports team to never go into a funk. As I posted a little while ago, their depth is a concern; the Raptors are also playing out of their minds.

I don't think anyone is comparing Kerr-Curry to Brady-Belichick. In the four major sports, there's the Patriots and everyone else. The Warriors have put together one heck of a run, and even if Durant leaves (I highly doubt Klay will), you'll probably have a team that, like the Patriots, will be in the mix year after year. To me, it's more about Thompson-Curry, the Splash Brothers, if you're looking for a duo who is carving out a place in NBA history.

As Pats fans we all know how difficult is to win a championship and the bar is set so high. If often comes down to which team is healthiest. But again, no sane person is comparing the Warriors to the Patriots. Maybe the 2014-present Warriors is a good comparison to the 2014-present Patriots in terms of success. The Patriots have dominated for almost twenty years. End of debate.

I hope the Warriors win, but if not, 3 titles and 5 Finals appearances in the 2010s, same as the Patriots. The Patriots should be team of the decade since they've been elite since the very beginning, have a wider gap between second place, haven't missed the playoffs, have 8 consecutive byes/ conference title games, etc.
 
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Injuries the Great Equaliizer that's your only chance against these NBA Super Teams. :rolleyes: One more Toronto please. :)
 
In one sense you are absolutely correct that they are nowhere near the Patriots dynastic level. But I root for them because what they've done in basketball is also incredibly hard to do, even if it hasn't been close to as long as the Patriots. They have a lot of players who could have much bigger roles on other teams (or at least, a lot of these guys could prior to recently when they've started to decline) but have bought into the collective good concept, which is hard to find in the diva NBA. People crap on them all the time, but I think what they've done is astonishing, to play as a team, without egos, when most NBA superstars are the most jealous, me-first, prima donas you'll find.

This is why I don't hate the Warriors or previously the Spurs. On the other hand I did hate the Lakers and Heat because they represented the opposite. To be fair I'd hate the Lakers no matter what because they're the Lakers but Kobe, Shaq, Ron Artest and others made it easy.

I have relatives in Toronto who are long suffering Leaf fans. So while I'm not actively rooting against the Warriors I will be happy if the Raptors win for them. Still not the same as the Leafs winning the cup but still.
 
This is an extremely beat up shell of the warriors squad the last 5 years.
Is there any value in taking them as long shots down 3-1 to come back and win the series? Isn’t Durant supposed to return for game 5? I honestly haven’t been paying attention, but it seems like something that would pay a good amount of money, and if he does return, they’re a whole different squad.

Are there other issues at play? I haven’t watched a single minute.
 
You can talk all you want about GS injuries.... but the reason why Toronto is up 3-1 is they have the best player in the game right now. And that’s what wins in that league.

Kawhi Leonard is such a breathe of fresh air man. Elite 2 way player that comes with not an ounce of diva like qualities. Plays for his team and plays to win. Hard not to like a guy like that.
 
Is there any value in taking them as long shots down 3-1 to come back and win the series? Isn’t Durant supposed to return for game 5? I honestly haven’t been paying attention, but it seems like something that would pay a good amount of money, and if he does return, they’re a whole different squad.

Are there other issues at play? I haven’t watched a single minute.

If Durant comes back I might do it but wouldn’t put a ton of money down.
 
You can talk all you want about GS injuries.... but the reason why Toronto is up 3-1 is they have the best player in the game right now. And that’s what wins in that league.

Kawhi Leonard is such a breathe of fresh air man. Elite 2 way player that comes with not an ounce of diva like qualities. Plays for his team and plays to win. Hard not to like a guy like that.

Unless your a Spurs fan. I would have been mad at Kawhi’s camp and the Spurs front office for last years drama.
 
Unless your a Spurs fan. I would have been mad at Kawhi’s camp and the Spurs front office for last years drama.
I was about to say. For all we know he’ll win the championship and then sign with the Lakers five minutes later. Then we’ll learn to hate him real quickly.
 
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This is an extremely beat up shell of the warriors squad the last 5 years.
This “shell” BLASTED all the West (best?) teams on the way to the Finals. Sounds like you are minimizing the Raptors’ effort and skill.

Just hope Leonard has one more 35+ night left in him in T.O.
 
The Spurs would be a good comparison for the Patriots. Warriors are more like the 80s 49ers or 90s Cowboys.

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@slam

I get the sense that Toronto pulled off one of the greatest trades in NBA history. They are about to win a championship and I don't get the sense that Kawhi will leave them anytime soon.
 
I'm not gonna say they are a better team without Durant because if he plays within their system he makes them better. But he does have the tendency to be a black hole and the ball doesn't cwhen he gets it. He's a great player so it doesn't matter when he's hitting shots. But the flow of the offense does get disrupted and Curry/Klay/Draymond are not as effective.

They can win without him.

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I was about to say. For all we know he’ll win the championship and then sign with the Lakers five minutes later. Then we’ll learn to hate him real quickly.
I can't see him going to LA.

1. The Lakers are a disaster.
2. Kawhi will not (and should not) defer to LeBron
 
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