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How Many OL's


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First, we're not talking about a top (1st four rounds) starting. We are talking about a Game Day backup.

But, your point is well taken. Karras should be on the team until the final cut. He may even make the 53. For me, that would be a disappointment, since we would need to use a roster spot so that Froholdt can develop.

I suppose that if the patriots saw Karras as competing for a starting position in the future, they could extend and keep him for 2020.
We’re talking about the first guy in for any of 3 positions (LG, C, RG) who may be injured, for both short and long term. I’m just not sure that I want to see a mid round rookie taking over for this possibility when we have a perfectly capable vet to handle these duties. As you said, there’s always the possibility that Karras will be extended next spring at a much lesser cost when Thuney presumably leaves for better pay.

Of course, as Perry suggests, Cajuste could be a guy who starts on PUP, making this whole debate pointless. Either way, much like LB, and maybe even CB, the OL is another position to keep a close eye on, as it could go 8-9, just as easily. Not meaning to suggest that my opinion is right and yours is somehow wrong. Personally, I see a guy in Karras that is not just a gameday backup but who usually starts a couple of games per season. In those games, they’ve gone 4-1 and he’s committed a false start once in 2016 and a holding penalty once in 2018. According to the responsibility breakdown, he seemed to hold his own better than some here think. As always, we can count on the excellent coaching staff to make this decision for us. Until then, we will debate it.
 
2010 - started the season with 10, plus Mankins to come later during contract dispute
2011 - started the season with 8
2012 - started the season with 9
2013 - started the season with 10
2014 - started the season with 9
2015 - started the season with 9
2016 - started the season with 9 with Vollmer & Tre Jackson on PUP
2017 - started the season with 8
2018 - started the season with 8
 
The open issue is how many IOL's are needed. The outside blocking is covered by having a FB, 4 OT's and a TE that can play at the end of the line.
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We have our 3 starters and a backup OT who can be an emergency IOL. We have Froholdt. Do we need Karras? One issue is whether Scar can bring Froholdt up to speed in camp and the preseason.


2010 - started the season with 10, plus Mankins to come later during contract dispute
2011 - started the season with 8
2012 - started the season with 9
2013 - started the season with 10
2014 - started the season with 9
2015 - started the season with 9
2016 - started the season with 9 with Vollmer & Tre Jackson on PUP
2017 - started the season with 8
2018 - started the season with 8
 
So, throughout his career, Karras has been active in 45/48 regular season games and all 9 postseason games from 2016-2018, which include all 3 Super Bowls.

I’m no OL “expert” like some of the others here, but it seems like Belichick and Scarnecchia may see something in him. If they didn’t, it would seem odd for him to have been active so many times, year in and year out, without Belichick choosing to upgrade or go in a different direction. He seems to be good for a couple of starts per year, too.
He was a tube because he was the 4th OL. He has made moves at the position and in fact Karras was cut in 2017 to keep Croston.
We seem to be content with 4 IOL, irrespective of health issues and as long as one of the 4 OTs can slide inside if needed, with a 5th on the practice squad.
Karras doesn’t suck and earned his job but we seem to have drafted his replacement.
I think the ideal 4th IOL pushes to start, so hanging around doing nothing bad may not be enough. Remember he’s a 4 year vet now, reloading the position with a rookie contract and a guy who seems a better shot to replace Thuney is a consideration too.
 
I believe that Bill wants to carry 8 linemen into the season.

I also believe that he feels that he is a legit 12 deep:
Wynn - Thuney - Andrews - Mason - Cannon
Veldheer - Frodo - Schwenke - Karras - Yawndy
Croston - Thanksdad

I would be (happily) surprised if Bill signs any other free agent linemen before TC begins; therefore, there are 7 players vying for only 4 or perhaps even 3 spots. Injuries and/or ineffectiveness will determine who stays and who goes, but I do believe that Bill would rather carry only 8 again this season.
 
I believe that Bill wants to carry 8 linemen into the season.

We have our 5 starters, plus our draftees who will make the team unless they start on some list.

ROLES
1) backup 2019 OT. This player may need to be the Gam Day backup. This player could be Croston. We could just go with the rookie (not a good idea because both starters have had injury issues.

2) extra blocker in short yardage situations (a 3rd TE). The role is often taken by an OT. This is less crucial for those, like us, who have a FB to play that role.

3) backup 2019 center (Frodo fills that role well; he's played a lot of center)

4) backup 2019 IOL. Maybe Frodo will be good enough to be the Game Day backup; perhaps not. If not, we have Karras and Schenke competing for that role.

5) potential 2020 starter at OG, replacing Thuney.
========
ALTERNATIVES FOR ME

OPTION 1
Add another veteran OT, and go with 8 or 9, deepening on how good Frodo looks (with Karras and Schwenke competing for the other spot). This is where we were before the retirement.

OPTION 2
Go with 9, with Croston getting on spot and Schwenke & Karras competing for the other.

OPTION 3
Bring in an veteran IOL, who could compete with Frodo to backup in 2019 and to start in 2020, with the other getting the Game Day backup spot. I would suspect that this would mean us carrying Croston and 9 OL's in 2019.

OPTION 4
Bring in two vets, one at OT and one at IOL and go with 9.

Obviously, much depends on cost and who is available. We don't really have a cap issue in 202, so any contact can be backloaded if we want. My gut says OPTION ONE is right. I was Ok with 8 OL's with Verdheer as one of the 8, but he covered all the positions. We won't get that from anther OT.


There are several roles for the remaining 1 or 2 players. In a good year, we'd expect both rookies to be game day backups.

I also believe that he feels that he is a legit 12 deep:
Wynn - Thuney - Andrews - Mason - Cannon
Veldheer - Frodo - Schwenke - Karras - Yawndy
Croston - Thanks dad
I would be (happily) surprised if Bill signs any other free agent linemen before TC begins; therefore, there are 7 players vying for only 4 or perhaps even 3 spots. Injuries and/or ineffectiveness will determine who stays and who goes, but I do believe that Bill would rather carry only 8 again this season.
 
I believe that Bill wants to carry 8 linemen into the season.

I also believe that he feels that he is a legit 12 deep:
Wynn - Thuney - Andrews - Mason - Cannon
Veldheer - Frodo - Schwenke - Karras - Yawndy
Croston - Thanksdad

I would be (happily) surprised if Bill signs any other free agent linemen before TC begins; therefore, there are 7 players vying for only 4 or perhaps even 3 spots. Injuries and/or ineffectiveness will determine who stays and who goes, but I do believe that Bill would rather carry only 8 again this season.
Ummm...make that 11 deep.

Now I'll be (unhappily) disappointed if Bill does Not sign any other free agent offensive linemen before TC begins.
 
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