Jared Veldheer to retire

primetime said:

Do you guys think arbitrators rule based on some arbitrary idea of fairness or something?

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Justice Berman and Justice Katzmann have identified at least one arbitrator who does.....

SammyBlueCat said:

Ticket prices?

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Plus the fact that it could directly impact the salary cap, which effects how competitive the team can be

If there was no salary cap, I wouldn't care all that much with the exception of that cost potentially being passed down to fans in one form or another

PatsWickedPissah said:

Now we can switch to saying what a class act he was to resign before taking the money.

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I'd rather ride this anger wave at least another day

Hammer of Thor said:

I guess that's in the eye of the beholder.
https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf
https://nflalumniasssociation.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/nfl-player-retirement-plan.pdf

Current players need 5 NFL seasons (basically being on an NFL roster) to vest although Veldheer was grandfathered in at 3 seasons. For his 9 NFL seasons from 2010 - 2018, he'll receive a monthly pension of $5,360. Same amount as Gronk will get, since their careers overlapped. $64,320 per year for life beginning at age 55. It's certainly not at the level of a current NFL salary, but it’s a decent amount especially when factoring in the retirement age of 55 instead of 65.

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Yeah but compare that to the MLB where guys vest after like 30 days on a major league roster and the pension is more generous. The vesting years are the biggest issue. The guys who would most need a pension are the guys who spend fewer than 5 years in the league, but the borderline guys are also the members of the union with the least pull so the PA traded away those 2 years. $66k also isn't much compared to the salaries; some state workers end up making more in retirement.

borisman said:

I don't know if @patchick wants to run a draft contest & a RPTTC contest

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Who can keep up when they start retiring before camp?

primetime said:

Yeah but compare that to the MLB where guys vest after like 30 days on a major league roster and the pension is more generous. The vesting years are the biggest issue. The guys who would most need a pension are the guys who spend fewer than 5 years in the league, but the borderline guys are also the members of the union with the least pull so the PA traded away those 2 years. $66k also isn't much compared to the salaries; some state workers end up making more in retirement.

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Agree with you on the MLB comparison - the NFL union is weak in general compared to the other major sports and that comparison is just one example. Just want to note though that part of the reason state pensions are high is because they don’t pay into social security, so their state pension covers that payment too. NFL players pay into social security so they’ll receive something from that in addition to the pension.

primetime said:

What?

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Wasteful spending will be passed on to the customer.

Jackson 2 said:

Obviously, Coach and GM Belichick disagreed with your assessment. His retirement doesn't mean he didn't have what it takes to be a Patriot or that he wasn't good enough to be one.

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It kind of does ... make him not a patriot.

Nice strategy by him so he can retire a Patriot.

borisman said:

Unless he retires prior to t-camp. We haven't had one of those in a few years
Italics = joking

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Doh!!

Angelpats said:

It kind of does ... make him not a patriot.

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That's not the same as not being good enough of not having what it takes. I don't know the circumstances behind his decision. Family matters? Doctor's recommendation? There are lots of possible reasons a pro football player might decide to retire and most of them don't necessarily reflect negatively on the guy. In fact, the exact opposite could be true.

patfanken said:

A player drafted in the top 4 rounds will sign a contract that will pay him enough money for him and his family to live a life time if he doesn't make a dime more after that 4 year contract is over. That assuming he makes no money from endorsement. That assuming that after the age of about 27 never works another day in his life!

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I am with you Ken. I really don't have much sympathy for players and how they "need to feed their family" and whatever else they spew after they already got to their first big contract. Or in case of early first round talent even before then. Once you made over 10m it really is not about providing or feeding anyone anymore.

If that amount of money doesn't last for at least one lifetime then you have some major issues with your lifestyle.

Now players before the contract money exploded the way it did in the last 20 years ? That is a different story.

SBLIII said:

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Sicilian said:

Meh, he probably should give it back, but this doesn't bother me that much. Players have so few points of actual leverage in the NFL, and many of them don't live great lives after the game. It sucks for the Pats, but I'm not going to begrudge a player for keeping every cent he can for retirement life until the team/league makes him do otherwise.

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That is not leverage that is another word ..

SammyBlueCat said:

Wasteful spending will be passed on to the customer.

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They can only spend so much, there's a salary cap. The ticket prices go up because they can go up; the teams don't up ticket prices in order to make payroll.

primetime said:

The NFL has a terrible retirement plan and whether he will keep the money or not depends entirely on the way the contract was worded. If the money was guaranteed carte blanche then he'll keep it.

I don't know why people get so hung up on someone else's money.

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It is not about someone else's money. They have a cap to spend on good players, that sign deals on good faith and try to improve the roster with them. They give him money to help them, and 750k is a large sum, idk for sure but they don't invest almost 1M dollars on a player that wants to retire ... That hurt Pats in a lot of ways beyond money. They don't have any depth at T, they have less money, and he is the 2nd guy with this MO, maybe another vet won't get a chance there because of guys like Wayne and him. But i read that if they did not pay him yet, they will get credit for this 750k and they should fight for that money.

patsbrasilpatriotas said:

It is not about someone else's money. They have a cap to spend on good players, that sign deals on good faith and try to improve the roster with them. They give him money to help them, and 750k is a large sum, idk for sure but they don't invest almost 1M dollars on a player that wants to retire ... That hurt Pats in a lot of ways beyond money. They don't have any depth at T, they have less money, and he is the 2nd guy with this MO, maybe another vet won't get a chance there because of guys like Wayne and him. But i read that if they did not pay him yet, they will get credit for this 750k and they should fight for that money.

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The CBA would require him to forfeit the signing bonus anyhow.

Posters on this board have spent more time thinking and arguing about this money than either the Patriots (for whom $750k is a pittance) or Veldheer (who is clearly aware of the require to forfeit on retirement and would not have expected to keep the money anyways).

Even by this board's standards, it's an incredibly dumb and weird thing to keep arguing about. Even if it had turned out that he had been paid, he has to forfeit the signing bonus; the CBA says so. There is no way he didn't know that. This wasn't some weird attempt to soak the Patriots. It won't require arbitration. End of story.

patsbrasilpatriotas said:

That is not leverage that is another word ..

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If you're implying something like theft, I think you're a bit off. It's not like the Patriots won't know where that money went. And if they choose not to take legal action, what obligation do you think a player has to return it? Sure, it would be ethical (by some definitions) to give the money back, but if the team doesn't pursue it, I don't understand the butt clenching about it.

Sicilian said:

If you're implying something like theft, I think you're a bit off. It's not like the Patriots won't know where that money went. And if they choose not to take legal action, what obligation do you think a player has to return it? Sure, it would be ethical (by some definitions) to give the money back, but if the team doesn't pursue it, I don't understand the butt clenching about it.

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Leaving aside the fact Veldheer couldn't keep the money under the CBA ad imagining he could have chosen, you don't see the owners of bad football teams turning down revenue sharing money or TV deal money. "Sorry, I know our agreement says I'm entitled to this, but I didn't earn it!"

Gronkowski123 said:

750k..we agreed to it good payday for doing nothing. This guy didn't have what it takes to be a patriot not good enough

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Sometimes I wonder about the people that post here...what makes you say he “wasn’t good enough to be a Patriot”? The fact that the team decided to pay him a decent chunk of money? The fact that he started 113 of the 118 games he’s been in the league. Or the chance that he may have been a starting tackle if Wynn isn’t ready/isn’t a tackle?