How Many OL's

mgteich · May 18, 2019

I suggest that we only "need" 8, with additional backups on the Practice Squad. I'm fine with 9, especially if we go with only 2 QB's and can "afford" the roster spot.

CENTER
starter - Andrews
backup - Froholdt (he has started lots of games at center)
backup - Veldheer (he has occasionally backed up as center, and can be our emergency #3 center)

GUARD
starter - Mason
starter - Thuney
backup - Froholdt
backup - Veldheer (he has occasionally backed up at guard, and can be our emergency backup guard)

TACKLE
starter - Wynn
starter - Cannon
backup - Veldheer
backup - Cajuste (I don't know if he can backup elsewhere)

GAME DAY BACKUPS
Froholdt, Veldheer

DO WE NEED A NUMBER 9 ON THE 53?
I suppose if Cajuste isn't ready when the season starts, we could add Croston until Cajuste is ready. I see Karras as redundant. Schwenke is also a possible 9th. I would also note that both Schwenke and Karras are in their contract years, and would provide no "insurance" for Thuney leaving in 2020. We have a 2020 comp 3rd for that contingency.

Ring 6 · May 18, 2019

mgteich said:
I suggest that we only "need" 8, with additional backups on the Practice Squad. I'm fine with 9, especially if we go with only 2 QB's and can "afford" the roster spot.

CENTER
starter - Andrews
backup - Froholdt (he has started lots of games at center)
backup - Veldheer (he has occasionally backed up as center, and can be our emergency #3 center)

GUARD
starter - Mason
starter - Thuney
backup - Froholdt
backup - Veldheer (he has occasionally backed up at guard, and can be our emergency backup guard)

TACKLE
starter - Wynn
starter - Cannon
backup - Veldheer
backup - Cajuste (I don't know if he can backup elsewhere)

GAME DAY BACKUPS
Froholdt, Veldheer

DO WE NEED A NUMBER 9 ON THE 53?
I suppose if Cajuste isn't ready when the season starts, we could add Croston until Cajuste is ready. I see Karras as redundant. Schwenke is also a possible 9th. I would also note that both Schwenke and Karras are in their contract years, and would provide no "insurance" for Thuney leaving in 2020. We have a 2020 comp 3rd for that contingency.

Karras has been here 3 years as the #4 IOL, Ie backup for all 3.
He has played a grand total of 430 snaps in 3 years and every other backup IOL combined have played 12.

So, first, replacing him with a rookie doesn’t worry me at all, and second, yes the 5th IOL is certainly redundant.

patriot1136 · May 18, 2019

So, we are assuming Cajuste and Froholdt beat out Karras and Croston? I figured one of them would land on the practice squad

mgteich · May 18, 2019

patriot1136 said:
So, we are assuming Cajuste and Froholdt beat out Karras and Croston? I figured one of them would land on the practice squad

Belichick has NEVER cut a 3rd or 4th rounder and had them land on the Practice Squad. In fact, he has never cut a 3rd or 4th rounder in their rookie year, NOT EVER.

SBLIII · May 19, 2019

patriot1136 said:
So, we are assuming Cajuste and Froholdt beat out Karras and Croston?

Well, yeah. But Karras probably still sticks.

mgteich · May 19, 2019

SBLIII said:
Well, yeah. But Karras probably still sticks.

Why? Is it because we don't have a better use for the roster spot?

patfanken · May 19, 2019

I would LIKE the idea that the Pats only keep 8 OLmen on the 53 mostly because that roster spot could be used to keep another player at one of our more abundant positions like LB, DB, or RB.

HOWEVER, the fact is that our potential success on the offensive side is going to be predicated on just how good the OL becomes. If things go as usual, and none of the starters don't miss a game, then OK, your proposal looks good. But we all know that the Injury Gods are cruel and vindictive. Our string of good luck in that area has run well lately and was one of the unreported factors in our success last season. That kind of luck doesn't run forever.

That is why I think BB will go with the standard 9 OLmen, with Karras and Croston fighting it out for the 9th spot. Given its importance to the success of the offense, I don't see BB putting that at risk for the sake of one roster spot. Just sayin'

Ring 6 · May 19, 2019

patfanken said:
I would LIKE the idea that the Pats only keep 8 OLmen on the 53 mostly because that roster spot could be used to keep another player at one of our more abundant positions like LB, DB, or RB.

HOWEVER, the fact is that our potential success on the offensive side is going to be predicated on just how good the OL becomes. If things go as usual, and none of the starters don't miss a game, then OK, your proposal looks good. But we all know that the Injury Gods are cruel and vindictive. Our string of good luck in that area has run well lately and was one of the unreported factors in our success last season. That kind of luck doesn't run forever.

That is why I think BB will go with the standard 9 OLmen, with Karras and Croston fighting it out for the 9th spot. Given its importance to the success of the offense, I don't see BB putting that at risk for the sake of one roster spot. Just sayin'

I’m for 8 OL.
We certainly need 4 OT. We don’t need 5.
So it comes down to IOL5. In the last 3 years IOL4 has played a combined total of 430 snaps and IOL5 has played 12 (last year in nip up duty).
Having IOL5 on the practice squad would for me. Certainly he wouldn’t be a game day active.
Also some of the projected 4 OTs can move inside if needed.

I’m not sure 9 is the standard amount. It seems, health willing the ideal number is 8.

AlexB · May 19, 2019

I think it'll largely depend on health and how well the rookies look in camp. I'm typically for 8 OL, but 9 is a real possibility this year if Froholdt isn't ready to back-up the three interior positions.

The other thing to consider is who would be able to clear waivers. Ideally, the 9th OL would make it to the practice squad to make room at another position (such as CB) where we'd likely lose the player. Ted Karras cleared waivers when he was released two years ago, though he was re-signed shortly afterwards. I'd be curious to know whether he'd clear waivers this year or whether he was too much experience at this point. Cole Croston is another candidate to carry on the practice squad, as he cleared waivers last year multiple times.

supafly · May 19, 2019

SBLIII said:
Well, yeah. But Karras probably still sticks.

Yeah, Karras is a tough call. He’s got a lot of experience in our system. He can play all of the interior positions. He could even possibly be a candidate to stick on a cheap deal next year when Thuney (presumably) leaves in free agency. That’s the kind of move that we’re used to seeing from BB.

The norm, if there is such a thing, would be to carry 5 interior OL, which should be Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Froholdt, and Karras; however, mgteich makes a decent argument that a 5th may not be needed. I think I’d disagree, simply for the fact that the 4th is a rookie and I really don’t want Froholdt as the first guy in, during an injury situation. That job should go to Karras.

supafly · May 19, 2019

AlexB said:
Ted Karras cleared waivers when he was released two years ago, though he was re-signed shortly afterwards. I'd be curious to know whether he'd clear waivers this year or whether he was too much experience at this point. Cole Croston is another candidate to carry on the practice squad, as he cleared waivers last year multiple times.

If we’re able to slip either one of them over to the PS, I’d be happy, although I don’t think Karras would make it, nor do I see them risking that possibility.

Edit: Karras wouldn’t be eligible, anyway.

Ochmed Jones · May 19, 2019

I think we have 8 on the 53 and 7 active for game day.

Wynn, Thuney, Andrews, mason, cannon with froholdt and verheer as backups. Karras is the 8th.

Cajuste starts the year on the pup.

Ring 6 · May 20, 2019

supafly said:
If we’re able to slip either one of them over to the PS, I’d be happy, although I don’t think Karras would make it, nor do I see them risking that possibility.

I think Karras is a jag and gets replace by Froholdt.

Sciz · May 20, 2019

Karras is not eligible for the practice squad. He has three accrued seasons.

supafly · May 20, 2019

So, throughout his career, Karras has been active in 45/48 regular season games and all 9 postseason games from 2016-2018, which include all 3 Super Bowls.

I’m no OL “expert” like some of the others here, but it seems like Belichick and Scarnecchia may see something in him. If they didn’t, it would seem odd for him to have been active so many times, year in and year out, without Belichick choosing to upgrade or go in a different direction. He seems to be good for a couple of starts per year, too.

supafly · May 20, 2019

Ochmed Jones said:
I think we have 8 on the 53 and 7 active for game day.

Wynn, Thuney, Andrews, mason, cannon with froholdt and verheer as backups. Karras is the 8th.

Cajuste starts the year on the pup.

You could be right depending on Cajuste’s recovery, or lack thereof, but your comment also proves what a waste of time most of these projections are. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy spring/summer projections to help talk football and pass the time, but there are often injuries that we simply cannot account for.

Flash · May 20, 2019

Just go with nine. OL is important and we actually have decent backups. Plus, while Cannon is a great RT, he has never started a full 16 game season for us. He's going to get banged up sometime during the season.

Wynn/Thuney/Andrews/Mason/Cannon backed up by Veldheer, Cajuste, Froholdt, Karras.

mgteich · May 20, 2019

There should be no issue this year with OT's. We need 4, especially with the injury histories.
======
The issue is how to handle the IOL. We have 3 starters and a rookie who can back up all three positions as Game Day backup (replacing Karras). If we want to have additional backups on the IOL, then the Practice Squad could be the place for those backups.

The open issue is whether Karras is so good that we need to use a roster spot for a position that has gotten 12 offensive reps in the last 3 years (5th IOL). If needed Valdheer can take those emergency reps, or one of the PS players can be activated.

Flash said:
Just go with nine. OL is important and we actually have decent backups. Plus, while Cannon is a great RT, he has never started a full 16 game season for us. He's going to get banged up sometime during the season.

Wynn/Thuney/Andrews/Mason/Cannon backed up by Veldheer, Cajuste, Froholdt, Karras.

supafly · May 20, 2019

mgteich said:
There should be no issue this year with OT's. We need 4, especially with the injury histories.
======
The issue is how to handle the IOL. We have 3 starters and a rookie who can back up all three positions as Game Day backup (replacing Karras). If we want to have additional backups on the IOL, then the Practice Squad could be the place for those backups.

The open issue is whether Karras is so good that we need to use a roster spot for a position that has gotten 12 offensive reps in the last 3 years (5th IOL). If needed Valdheer can take those emergency reps, or one of the PS players can be activated.

Why are you assuming that a 4th round rookie with zero NFL experience is going to jump the 3 year vet who has been active in 45/48 regular season games, and also active in every single postseason game since he’s been here?

Who is claiming that Froholdt is suddenly now the 4th IOL (first one in if injury occurs), thus bumping Karras down to 5th? That doesn’t make sense to me. I mean, I get your argument and it makes sense to debate the use of the roster spot, but I don’t see how you’re so confident about a mid-round pick that he’s now displacing a 3 year vet who’s been active in 94.7% of his career games here.

mgteich · May 20, 2019

First, we're not talking about a top (1st four rounds) starting. We are talking about a Game Day backup.

But, your point is well taken. Karras should be on the team until the final cut. He may even make the 53. For me, that would be a disappointment, since we would need to use a roster spot so that Froholdt can develop.

I suppose that if the patriots saw Karras as competing for a starting position in the future, they could extend and keep him for 2020.

supafly said:
Why are you assuming that a 4th round rookie with zero NFL experience is going to jump the 3 year vet who has been active in 45/48 regular season games, and also active in every single postseason game since he’s been here?

Who is claiming that Froholdt is suddenly now the 4th IOL (first one in if injury occurs), thus bumping Karras down to 5th? That doesn’t make sense to me. I mean, I get your argument and it makes sense to debate the use of the roster spot, but I don’t see how you’re so confident about a mid-round pick that he’s now displacing a 3 year vet who’s been active in 94.7% of his career games here.

How Many OL's

PatsFans.com Veteran

PatsFans.com Supporter

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

PatsFans.com Veteran

In the Starting Line-Up

PatsFans.com Veteran

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

Eff you, Shula

Eff you, Shula

Pro Bowl Player

PatsFans.com Supporter

PatsFans.com Supporter

Eff you, Shula

Eff you, Shula

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

PatsFans.com Veteran

Eff you, Shula

PatsFans.com Veteran

Similar threads