Patriots getting the band back together, sign Jamie Collins

patfanken said:

Are you just trying to goad us or are you just obtuse.

I'm one who thinks that Jaime's "lack of gap discipline was less an issue than the fact that he was going to be paid a BOATLOAD of money the following year and the Pats were never going to able to match it. So rather than getting a pick around 100 a year from then, he grabbed a more immediate pick that was more likely to be closer to 63. And in the process let everyone know that pretty much EVERYONE is expendable when the aren't doing their JOBS they way they are coached.

In an ideal world where the players play for free, Bill would have continued to work with Collins to get him to be where he wanted to be. But in the real world where Jaime Collins time with the Pats would have ended REGARDLESS in 2 months the Pats chose to get a little value, improved gap discipline, and send a teaching message besides.

If reports are true and Bill tried to get him back at the trade deadline last season, then it's clear BB felt whatever problems they had with him in the past weren't THAT big a deal.

BTW- one of my pet peeves about fans and the media is their propensity to take snapshots of player performances and use them FOREVER as exemplars of who they are. Here's the thing - Good players are CONSTANTLY changing and improving their games. Those who don't are the ones who have 3 year careers. So people who want to harp on a play Collins made in a game in FREAKIN' 2015 are idiots, because that player doesn't exist anymore.

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Are you feeling goaded?

I don't recall anyone telling us how inconsistent he was or complaining about a lack of gap discipline in the first three years of his contract, in fact he was arguably our best defender, he made spectacular plays that a guy his size shouldn't have.

Kicking players as they're going out the door is a rite of passage for fans, they focus on all sorts of negatives as if that is the forever snapshot. When Logan Mankins was negotiating, griping in the media and everyone thought he was a goner, all we heard was how he wasn't that good and was easily replaced... then he signed and suddenly he was a dominant guard again... absurd.

Collins never stopped being who he was except when he was grousing about money, even when he went to Cleveland he was instantly their best linebacker. The first year of his new contract was riddled with injury, so the boo birds got their jollies off telling us how bad he was and BB was right for jettisoning him because "look at his stats." Give me a break.

He's closer to 30 now so his athleticism has come down to Earth, he's still one of the better linebackers in the NFL if healthy. This notion that there was some inherent flaw in his game that only became apparent when it was time to get paid is absurd.

If the Pats sign him on a one year deal expect him to explode then go sign a mega deal elsewhere. This isn't like Patrick Chung at all, Chung was a young player who had to improve in coverage the first time around and thought he would shine outside New England. Collins was an All Pro who was about to become the highest paid ILB in the NFL.

PatsBoy12 said:

Ever occurred to you that maybe Collins was coloring inside the lines until his contract season? Even you stated in your rants that BB had no intention of paying him, something many of us believe to be true as well, so Collins began to try to pad his numbers for a big payday. No clue if you bothered to watch the games, but it was pretty obvious. He was even benched in the BUF game for shooting the wrong gap and allowing a huge gain on the ground attempting to make a splash play rather than the right play. Lombardi, who has been more right than wrong over the years, also reported that he had a few altercations with Patricia as well over his undisciplined play. Go figure.

So, if money was the sole consideration as you assert, why trade someone who at that time was still one of your better defensive players (at least in theory) on a SB favorite rather than just letting him finish the season? C'mon man, just let it go. You're entitled to your opinion and all, but you're incorrect on this topic and many on the board have even proven that with actual data to back it up. You're making yourself look like a scorned ex now.

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Conan the barbarian is a sell sword who fights for money, do I care what his motivation is?

Or do I simply know that if I pay him well, he'll fight like a berserker and destroy my enemies.

robertweathers said:

With that said, to your point they will shell out a ton of $ for a player and pay top of the market ONLY if it makes sense to them. Devin in FA. Gilmore. Shaq. Tom. Cannon. High. VW, Mayo. Mankins.

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Every one of those guys you mentioned wasn't the highest paid player at their position, they were somewhere in the range of 85-95% highest paid at their position.

The only exception was Gilmore who just by happenstance got signed in a year where the Patriots had the most cap space in the NFL, they had all the money in the world to spend and they don't get to carry it over, they had to spend it. It also wouldn't surprise me if Gilmore becomes the Tom Brady of the defense, if he adjusts his cap hit every couple years to make it easier on the team.

Chandler Jones, Collins, Trent Brown, Trey Flowers, Jimmy G... these guys were the highest paid players at their individual positions, they got overpaid, BB never overpays.

Wozzy said:

Every one of those guys you mentioned wasn't the highest paid player at their position, they were somewhere in the range of 85-95% highest paid at their position.

The only exception was Gilmore who just by happenstance got signed in a year where the Patriots had the most cap space in the NFL, they had all the money in the world to spend and they don't get to carry it over, they had to spend it. It also wouldn't surprise me if Gilmore becomes the Tom Brady of the defense, if he adjusts his cap hit every couple years to make it easier on the team.

Chandler Jones, Collins, Trent Brown, Trey Flowers, Jimmy G... these guys were the highest paid players at their individual positions, they got overpaid, BB never overpays.

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What metric did you use to determine "highest paid". AAV? Bonus? Guaranteed $?

I'm willing to bet you used a different benchmark than I did.

patsinthesnow said:

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I don't see the downside.

Essentially $350k guaranteed since they’re not going to cut him in the next month before he earns his workout bonus. Not a lock.

patsinthesnow said:

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So rough math if he plays 16 games and makes the ProBowl and AllPro teams he can make $6m.

Hot take is BB sold Jamie on a role that was a lot broader than a passing down specialist.

Wow.

robertweathers said:

So rough math if he plays 16 games and makes the ProBowl and AllPro teams he can make $6m.

Wow.

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His max is 5 Million. Also 1 Million is NLTBE.

robertweathers said:

So rough math if he plays 16 games and makes the ProBowl and AllPro teams he can make $6m.

Hot take is BB sold Jamie on a role that was a lot broader than a passing down specialist.

Wow.

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5 million.

He'll likely earn around 3.5

Minitron said:

His max is 5 Million.

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Yea I just did the math again.

...and 1/2 my actual real job is financial-related.

More coffee!

SBLIII said:

5 million.

He'll likely earn around 3.5

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Yea that seems about right.

Only way he hits all the bonuses is if someone gets hurt.

patsinthesnow said:

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What a f***ing steal! Collins must be counting on the big stage to get his career back on track.

Wow.

robertweathers said:

What metric did you use to determine "highest paid". AAV? Bonus? Guaranteed $?

I'm willing to bet you used a different benchmark than I did.

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Whether we're using guaranteed money or the total value of the contract none of those guys outside of Gilmore were the highest paid, they were all in the 80-90% near the highest paid at best.

robertweathers said:

You didn't comprehend mine either. I'm out.

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I know you are but what am I? I'm out

SBLIII said:

I don't see the downside.

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There isn't one, it's a "show me" deal.

He'll likely explode and earn another bloated contract next year elsewhere.

TheRainMaker said:

This thread is getting too funny. The Pats signed a LB familiar with the system. This was a group decimated by injury last year. It’s a low risk/high reward signing yet we’re arguing about it.

I see him used as a blitzer on 3rd downs. He was a beast rushing up the middle.

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People are bringing back old arguments from 2016 not really arguing about him today lol.

Seems about right for a veteran depth signing. Lets see if he can make the roster.

Low risk, high upside is the mantra yet again.

SBLIII said:

5 million.

He'll likely earn around 3.5

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I think even less, I see him on the field 25 or 30 plays a game. I don't see him getting 50% of the snaps unless they bring Hightower down on the line, but with Winovich/Rivers and John Simon, I don't see much chance of that, then throw a couple of games hurt ( see it more like 2.5