Patriots getting the band back together, sign Jamie Collins

robertweathers said:

Spending on Devin was warranted, worth it and a smart transaction.

People need to look at DMc in the same lens as Mayo.

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Adalius had a great game in the Super Bowl against the Giants, too, but it went south from there.

Devin though, all he has done is be the leader of the best position group on the team for the most prosperous years in team history, so of course he deserves to be trashed.

IllegalContact said:

He’s proven that every situation is different and your claim has no basis

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When has BB decimated a team leaving it devoid of talent?

robertweathers said:

When has BB decimated a team leaving it devoid of talent?

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According to the GDT, every time the Patriots lose a game...

Mccourty is a stud do people remember the secondary that used to get trashed on every third and long.
God Mccourty could arguably be the most important player on the defense since he's been drafted.
STUD class act and has taken discounts to stay with us vs go to the Eagles he's one of the Patriots best picks ever.

robertweathers said:

When has BB decimated a team leaving it devoid of talent?

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Huh?

robertweathers said:

When has BB decimated a team leaving it devoid of talent?

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If you go back to 2014 you will find thousands of posts claiming Belichick the GM had destroyed the roster. The Patriots went on to win 3 of the next 5 Lombardi’s, but they were right nonetheless.

Froob said:

Weren't we in line to get a pretty decent comp pick for him? Seems like Bill just didn't want him out there (for reasons you listed). Pretty clear Bill didn't just ship him out because he thought he'd lose him.

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robertweathers said:

I know this was beaten to death 3 years ago but I think Bill....

1. Figured if Jamie wasn't going to do his job to move him ASAP
2. Send him to CLE where he'd get a decent 3rd rounder and direct him to a non-threatening team

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captain stone said:

Except he didn't receive a "decent" 3rd-rounder for him.

No it wasn't.

3* 103 New Orleans Saints Trey Hendrickson LB Florida Atlantic C-USA from Cleveland via New England [R3 - 17]

People who defend Bill for trading Collins mid-season need to stop using the "He received better value by trading him now for a 2017 pick rather than wait for the compensatory pick in 2018" argument because it's simply not true.

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I'm replying to all the above quotes because this is a major pet-peeve of mine....

Please remember, comp picks get canceled out due to the NFL's formula that matches the Free Agents you lose vs the Free Agents you gain. No one knows the exact contract-related formula, but it isn't exactly rocket science: (1) you must lose more players than you gain. (2) If you lose a high-priced FA -- and want to keep that projected 3rd rd comp pick -- then you cannot sign a new high priced FA and keep that same comp pick. One cancels out the other. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Get it?

So, if you "expected" to get a 3rd rd comp pick for Jamie Collins in 2017 FA; then you should've also "expected" that NE would have a relatively modest Free Agency & not sign any high priced FAs (like, oh, I dunno....Stephon Gilmore). I know hindsight is 20/20, but why do people so quickly forget this? I don't need to explain any of this, you all know this, yet it's always so quickly forgotten in conversations like this. If you want the comp pick, then you are limiting your Free Agent market severely, i.e. players who were cut, players still on the market after the draft, or hope Belichick can pull off a steal of a trade (like Revis, or Trent Brown). Because even if you want to just go after moderately-priced FAs; you still have to lose more than you gain.

So, back to the topic at hand; trading Collins to Cleveland secured that 3rd. That's the value. Even if, somehow, the Browns traded you the exact same 3rd as the comp pick would've awarded you. Because that trade lets you approach free agency as aggressively as you want.

This thread is getting too funny. The Pats signed a LB familiar with the system. This was a group decimated by injury last year. It’s a low risk/high reward signing yet we’re arguing about it.

I see him used as a blitzer on 3rd downs. He was a beast rushing up the middle.

Wozzy said:

So Bill played Collins max snaps for 3.5 years then realized weeks before the trading deadline he sucked... sounds logical.

Obviously Bill's ability to grade player performance needs to improve, we'll have to take your word for it.

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Ivan said:

I don’t get the opposition to this move. They had an opportunity to improve the team and took it. Low risk, good potential reward. And the revisionist history is pretty funny. The vast majority of this board wanted Collins to be re-signed, and screamed that Belichick got hosed in the trade , and had cost them any shot at the Super Bowl.

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TheRainMaker said:

This thread is getting too funny. The Pats signed a LB familiar with the system. This was a group decimated by injury last year. It’s a low risk/high reward signing yet we’re arguing about it.

I see him used as a blitzer on 3rd downs. He was a beast rushing up the middle.

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I'm so glad I'm not the only one scratching my head over the backlash, here, too.

Hercules Rockefeller said:

Adalius had a great game in the Super Bowl against the Giants, too, but it went south from there.

Devin though, all he has done is be the leader of the best position group on the team for the most prosperous years in team history, so of course he deserves to be trashed.

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Actually, the whole 2007 season was a success for Thomas, and he followed that up with a great first half (9 games) in 2008 where he was headed for double digit sack totals until he broke his arm and went on IR. Prior to the unfortunate injury, he was doing very well in NE.

When he came back in 2009, he scoffed at the idea of changing his responsibilities which I believe included the idea of playing a lot more strong side LB, grumbling and making noise about it in the media. His attitude soured quickly that year, and I believe that he was part of the “late to practice/sent home early” group when it snowed in December.

Since they were now 3 full years into the deal and could see a substantial cap savings, Belichick decided that it would be best to part ways. Ultimately, his time in NE should be seen as a failure, but I think some get a bit carried away at times. The only year I blame him for is 2009 due to his poor attitude, but the LB group as a whole wasn’t exactly stellar that season.

captain stone said:

I was hoping to see Herron - longshot though he might've been - compete for one of the 2(/3?) backup DT spots behind Guy & Pennel. Too bad...and yet again, for reasons only known to Bill, Cedrick Lang & Nick Thurman are still in the building.

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Long time til the end of July. There are a number of veteran big bodies, including Shelton that will be available and better than Herron. We aren't done at that position.

supafly said:

Actually, the whole 2007 season was a success for Thomas, and he followed that up with a great first half (9 games) in 2008 where he was headed for double digit sack totals until he broke his arm and went on IR. Prior to the unfortunate injury, he was doing very well in NE.

When he came back in 2009, he scoffed at the idea of changing his responsibilities which I believe included the idea of playing a lot more strong side LB, grumbling and making noise about it in the media. His attitude soured quickly that year, and I believe that he was part of the “late to practice/sent home early” group when it snowed in December.

Since they were now 3 full years into the deal and could see a substantial cap savings, Belichick decided that it would be best to part ways. Ultimately, his time in NE should be seen as a failure, but I think some get a bit carried away at times. The only year I blame him for is 2009 due to his poor attitude, but the LB group as a whole wasn’t exactly stellar that season.

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The myth that Adalius Thomas was bust continues.

He filled a need that lost them the 2006 AFCCG and set the tone defensively in the 2007 season taking back a Phillip Rivers INT with ease week 2.

He was a terror in the 2007 Super Bowl and was so close getting a 3rd sack that may have put the Giants in a 4th in 10+ situation. Unfortunately, the entire O-line held everyone and the Tyree catch happened.

ChrisR2223 said:

Mccourty is a stud do people remember the secondary that used to get trashed on every third and long.
God Mccourty could arguably be the most important player on the defense since he's been drafted.
STUD class act and has taken discounts to stay with us vs go to the Eagles he's one of the Patriots best picks ever.

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His durability still blows me away. He has never suffered a serious injury. I can't even remember the last time he missed 2-3 consecutive games, if ever.

TheRainMaker said:

The myth that Adalius Thomas was bust continues.

He filled aone of the needs need that lost them the 2006 AFCCG and set the tone defensively in the 2007 season taking back a Phillip Rivers INT with ease week 2.

He was a terror in the 2007 Super Bowl and was so close getting a 3rd sack that may have put the Giants in a 4th in 10+ situation. Unfortunately, the entire O-line held everyone and the Tyree catch happened.

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While the defense blew an 18 point halftime lead in that game, when Reche Caldwell is your leading receiver that season , that's a need that needs to be addressed (Moss, Welker, Stallworth)

shaky video but...

Patsfanin Philly said:

While the defense blew an 18 point halftime lead in that game, when Reche Caldwell is your leading receiver that season , that's a need that needs to be addressed (Moss, Welker, Stallworth)

shaky video but...

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For me, this is one of the tougher losses in franchise history. Definitely top 5, even over the first two SB losses to CHI and GB. You’d have to open up your wallet to get me to suffer through that video.

Wozzy said:

So Bill played Collins max snaps for 3.5 years then realized weeks before the trading deadline he sucked... sounds logical.

Obviously Bill's ability to grade player performance needs to improve, we'll have to take your word for it.

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Ever occurred to you that maybe Collins was coloring inside the lines until his contract season? Even you stated in your rants that BB had no intention of paying him, something many of us believe to be true as well, so Collins began to try to pad his numbers for a big payday. No clue if you bothered to watch the games, but it was pretty obvious. He was even benched in the BUF game for shooting the wrong gap and allowing a huge gain on the ground attempting to make a splash play rather than the right play. Lombardi, who has been more right than wrong over the years, also reported that he had a few altercations with Patricia as well over his undisciplined play. Go figure.

So, if money was the sole consideration as you assert, why trade someone who at that time was still one of your better defensive players (at least in theory) on a SB favorite rather than just letting him finish the season? C'mon man, just let it go. You're entitled to your opinion and all, but you're incorrect on this topic and many on the board have even proven that with actual data to back it up. You're making yourself look like a scorned ex now.

The idea of "pliability" has been ingrained into our Pats Psyche, maybe this year we will hear more about "schematic flexibility" as the Pats have many moving parts on O and on D that may make this edition somewhat different than it has been in the past..

On paper 3 quality RB's, no Gronk but depth at TE, no Randy Moss but what looks like a taller WR group, + a very good O line. On D with the addition of Collins there is a lot of athleticism and mix and match combo's that will make opposing O and D coordinators scratch their heads..

The depth at DB, LB and D line is outstanding and hopefully they can remain healthy..

I like this team...

Ivan said:

If you go back to 2014 you will find thousands of posts claiming Belichick the GM had destroyed the roster. The Patriots went on to win 3 of the next 5 Lombardi’s, but they were right nonetheless.

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....and those posters were idiots

IllegalContact said:

Huh?

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You tell me.Thats where you took the discussion. You are coming across as saying BB was wrong to ditch Jamie.

robertweathers said:

You tell me.Thats where you took the discussion. You are coming across as saying BB was wrong to ditch Jamie.

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If I remember correctly BB traded Collins not because he was not a good player, he did it because he freelanced and failed to "hold the edge", and not doing his job.

I vaguely remember the game, as the camera's panned to a disgusted and angry BB on the sidelines..