Patriots getting the band back together, sign Jamie Collins

IllegalContact said:

not at all....I am saying the position has been a **** show ever since his departure.......he wasn't going to pay collins anyway, and yeah, collins was playing for his impending paycheck the way he wanted to, but the simple fact is that he's back speaks volumes.....

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does it?

IllegalContact said:

not at all....I am saying the position has been a **** show ever since his departure.......he wasn't going to pay collins anyway, and yeah, collins was playing for his impending paycheck the way he wanted to, but the simple fact is that he's back speaks volumes.....

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I don't think anyone is saying all the players you mention are as/more talented than Jamie Collins.

I think you can easily argue that with the way Jamie was playing leading up to the trade, his play was hurting the defense as a unit.

At the end of the day, that is what really matters.

SBLIII said:

does it?

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yes

robertweathers said:

So you think Bill should not have traded Jamie even though he was blowing off his assignments and leaving his teammates out to dry?

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One thing that Jamie and High brings to the Table is that they are Big LB's and when those guys Blitz either is a Load for RB's to take on in fact most of them cringe. BB will Maximize what Jamie does Best and keep Elandon on ST's or on the Bench.

robertweathers said:

I don't think anyone is saying all the players you mention are as/more talented than Jamie Collins.

I think you can easily argue that with the way Jamie was playing leading up to the trade, his play was hurting the defense as a unit.

At the end of the day, that is what really matters.

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so what's the basis easily saying his play hurt the team? I think it was more along the lines of let's get a draft pick and hope the dropoff to roberts wasn't much.

PatsFan2 said:

One thing that Jamie and High brings to the Table is that they are Big LB's and when those guys Blitz either is a Load for RB's to take on in fact most of them cringe. BB will Maximize what Jamie does Best and keep Elandon on ST's or on the Bench.

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Sorry to tell you but Elandon is playing 400 snaps next year.

IllegalContact said:

so what's the basis easily saying his play hurt the team? I think it was more along the lines of let's get a draft pick and hope the dropoff to roberts wasn't much.

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You do not think Jamie's play Week 8 vs BUF in 2016 hurt the overall defense?

robertweathers said:

Sorry to tell you but Elandon is playing 400 snaps next year.

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That Wedge can't change directions buster should be a Beast on ST's.

I'm all for this signing. Gives us an impressive array of LBs for the 1-5-5 defence who can either rush or cover. Imagine Bennett as the one down lineman, with Hightower, Van Noy, Collins, Bentley and Winovich all standing up. Wouldn't know who was coming or dropping.

condon84 said:

As far as the freelancing accusation, I'm certain BB would not have signed him if he thinks it would be an issue.

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For the record, the biggest problem with Collins' free-lancing is that by the time he was traded, it was making the team worse against the run and the pass (i.e., they were giving up fewer yards per play on all plays when he was off the field).

All these teams are paying like $18M to elite pass edge rushers. At the very least, can’t he just some kind of lite version of their own one dimensional, pin-your ears back third down rusher? Seems like that’s what he likes to do anyway and takes away the problems he had with assignments. People talking about his coverage skills....I don’t know. He has the athleticism for it but always seemed to get gashed for huge gains. Gave up two TDs to 103 year old Owen Daniels in 2015/16 AFCCG. Always seemed to get beat over the top and due to either lacking technique or over aggressiveness.

But a cheap pass rusher...that would be value.

robertweathers said:

2016 Collins' per game snap counts.

We can call it anyway we want but for whatever the reason, they clearly reduced his workload.
View attachment 23361

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Jamie Collins
Oct 9, 2016 NFL Inguinal Hip Sprain

I know the bashing of Collins has become the en vouge thing to do & the talking about Daniels TDs in the 2015 AFC championship game is oft mentioned but He was otherwise spectacular in that game. Led the team in tackles 8, tackles for loss 3, Qb Hits 2, Sacks 2. All that & the fact him being injured prior to the trade is lost in the bash fest that has happened since the original trade.

sean10mm said:

Brissett was playing with a torn ligament in his thumb in that game as well. He couldn't grasp or throw the ball anything like normal for him.

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Given how that game played out we probably should have started Edelman

Mack Herron said:

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Nah. Collins' undoing in New England was the typical one: he wanted to get paid.

50-yard-line said:

Nah. Collins' undoing in New England was the typical one: he wanted to get paid.

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Everyone wants to get paid. The problem was the large gap between the player and team in perceived value. His performance determined his value to the team.

I wonder how many reporters who buried the Pats for trading him away are burying the Pats for taking him back.

Mack Herron said:

Everyone wants to get paid. The problem was the large gap between the player and team in perceived value. His performance determined his value to the team.

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Agreed. If the only problem was he wanted to get paid, they wouldn’t have traded him for a third round pick when they would get a third round comp pick for him the next year. The team was gearing up for their Super Bowl run at the time, so they wouldn’t have sent him to the Browns merely because they couldn’t extend him. He was becoming somewhere between a limited role player and a liability. Moving up from bottom of third round in 2018 draft to top of third round in 2017 draft was a good enough value return to send him packing.

It also sent a message to the team, which I don’t think should be overlooked. No one is safe if they don’t buy into the system, regardless of their reputation.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

All these teams are paying like $18M to elite pass edge rushers. At the very least, can’t he just some kind of lite version of their own one dimensional, pin-your ears back third down rusher? Seems like that’s what he likes to do anyway and takes away the problems he had with assignments. People talking about his coverage skills....I don’t know. He has the athleticism for it but always seemed to get gashed for huge gains. Gave up two TDs to 103 year old Owen Daniels in 2015/16 AFCCG. Always seemed to get beat over the top and due to either lacking technique or over aggressiveness.

But a cheap pass rusher...that would be value.

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This is pretty much my take also. We need a pass rusher way more than we need an off ball LB, and Collins has always been best at blitzing.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

Agreed. If the only problem was he wanted to get paid, they wouldn’t have traded him for a third round pick when they would get a third round comp pick for him the next year. The team was gearing up for their Super Bowl run at the time, so they wouldn’t have sent him to the Browns merely because they couldn’t extend him. He was becoming somewhere between a limited role player and a liability. Moving up from bottom of third round in 2018 draft to top of third round in 2017 draft was a good enough value return to send him packing.

It also sent a message to the team, which I don’t think should be overlooked. No one is safe if they don’t buy into the system, regardless of their reputation.

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Yup. The question is whether he has changed in that regard. Can he do his job? I doubt his contract treats that as a closed matter.